talkmagic.co.uk

Hi,

lying in bed last night, I was thinking about our Christmas do in work in a few weeks and a great opportunity to try out some tricks on a slightly forgiving audience.

I understand that these tricks are simple entry level stuff, but I got quite excited thinking that I could actually augment the tricks to suit myself, even if so slightly.

I'm not quite sure what the protocol is on the non-private part of the board, so I'll try to be as vague and jargony as possible!




The first problem I have is that I need to swap the deck with a second one once a card is selected. I have considered asking the participant to show the card around so that everyone sees it, so that this will give me the opportunity. But I'm anxious as to how well I'd actually dump the hot deck for the cooler.

Another facilitator is that I also need to use an odd card as a gimmick or wand, so I figured I could have that on top the second deck in my pocket.. reach in to get the 'prop' card and retrieve both it and the second deck.

The rest of the trick I think I have covered once I write my own patter for it (a big enough problem in itself, but it just means I have to dust off my brain and get creative).





The next, and a slightly more generic problem is that I have an excellent packet trick from John Bannon (Twisted Sisters) but whenever I have pulled that little plastic wallet out in the past I just get; "Why are they in there? Are they Trick cards?" So I would like to know how to present this, as the effect is awesome.

If you are unfamiliar with the trick, it consists of 4 red and 4 blue back cards, so it could require two decks the retrieve the cards from.

If you are familiar with it, though. An extra convincer would be good, as my elmesly count is WEAK.




Well there was going to be another trick I needed help with, but while writing this, I realised I had the ending wrong and the bit I needed advice for was not really needed at all.

I'll write it out, though, as there may be a valid discussion point within.

It basically concerns any reveal performed in a trick using a key card.

I have found, watching certain friends and others perform these sort of tricks, that no matter how elaborate the set up of the trick, the reveal is them fanning the faces towards them and frantically looking for the key card.

It just seems to me if I did that, the participant and audience will just be thinking "We'll he's marked it somehow and he's just looking for it".

So my idea was to place a single dummy card in the deck. Perhaps a blank, or one with DECOY written across it. And then while looking for the selected card, select this dummy and put it on the table, controlling the selected to the bottom at the same time. For the reveal I could then use something like the hot shot cut (childish maybe? but a crowd-pleaser) before revealing the decoy.

My reasoning would be that the break from putting the card on the table to revealing the chosen card would cloud any viewer's recollection of me picking up the cards and looking through them.




So that was my idea. My question would have been about what patter to use between the false selection and the reveal. How to distance the two actions but also make the flourish relevant.

But writing it out, again I notice that the use of the decoy card isn't really that original. It could be seen as the same as just getting the participant's card wrong (with any indifferent card), then trying again and revealing it with the flourish.

Don't worry too much about the deck switch, as soon as the card has been selected just pop the deck back in your pocket. When you need to have the card returned, just fetch the clean one. You'll be suprised but no body it likely to question it.

The packet trick, it does look dodgey having the cards in a little packet. Just have them ready on the top of a deck and take them from there when you need them.

As for the last trick, why not be a little creative with the reveal? Instead of getting it wrong and then right on the seoncd go, perhaps palm off the chosen card on the first pass and then have it appear in some suprising place, under a glass, in your mouth, in a wallet, anywhere you like.

I'm a bit new myself but I'll have a go...

HalfJack wrote:The next, and a slightly more generic problem is that I have an excellent packet trick from John Bannon (Twisted Sisters) but whenever I have pulled that little plastic wallet out in the past I just get; "Why are they in there? Are they Trick cards?" So I would like to know how to present this, as the effect is awesome.

If you are unfamiliar with the trick, it consists of 4 red and 4 blue back cards, so it could require two decks the retrieve the cards from.

If you are familiar with it, though. An extra convincer would be good, as my elmesly count is WEAK.

Add the 1 card to a deck of each colour before hand. Then you can naturally pick 4 cards from each deck. Aces would work just as well and would be more convincing since they are naturally found in a deck.

It took me about an hour to get decent at the Elmsley Count. I was all fingers and thumbs at the beginning. I just forced myself to sit and keep doing it while watching TV. I suggest you do this and you'll be glad you did. You need it to take attention away from the part of the effect before it and the count will help a lot.

HalfJack wrote:So that was my idea. My question would have been about what patter to use between the false selection and the reveal. How to distance the two actions but also make the flourish relevant.

But writing it out, again I notice that the use of the decoy card isn't really that original. It could be seen as the same as just getting the participant's card wrong (with any indifferent card), then trying again and revealing it with the flourish.

The idea of putting a decoy card in with "Decoy" written in big letters is ok. Maybe writing "Wrong card!" is funnier. It'll add a bit of comedy to it if presented right and can use this to distract by slapping it face down and saying "There! Is that your card?"... they turn it over... "Oh sorry! Did I pick the wrong card?"... loads of time. You could probably get away with just cutting the fan (facing you) so their card ends up on top so it can be then produced as a finish (can you palm?). You need their card to be produced away from the rest of the deck at the end if you are going to look through them as it'll take away the suspicion that you have just looked through, spotted it and shown them what you have found.

I have never tried to put method in a vague form on this forum before... I hope this isn't too much! Sorry all if so!

HalfJack wrote:The first problem I have is that I need to swap the deck with a second one once a card is selected. I have considered asking the participant to show the card around so that everyone sees it, so that this will give me the opportunity. But I'm anxious as to how well I'd actually dump the hot deck for the cooler.

I have no idea what effect you are performing here but, IMO, you need to work the handling to not need a deck swap. Especially so instantly. Generally speaking, deck swaps are not pulled in the middle of a trick like that. Normally you would work a deck swap into the routine- card trick with deck A, coin trick, card trick with deck B, etc.

Either way, the key is misdirection and cover. Easiest solution is probably going to your case. You'll need a reason to go to it- retrieve something. Announce your intention of going to the case. Have deck in left hand. Turn to the left. Reach in for whatever (anything other than the new deck) with right hand. Switch decks with the left. Turn back to the audience while drawing attention to whatever is in your right hand and go from there.

HalfJack wrote:Another facilitator is that I also need to use an odd card as a gimmick or wand, so I figured I could have that on top the second deck in my pocket.. reach in to get the 'prop' card and retrieve both it and the second deck.

If you can honestly palm out a deck of cards and palm in a deck from the same pocket undetected then you should be able to rework the handling of the trick to only use one deck.

HalfJack wrote:The next, and a slightly more generic problem is that I have an excellent packet trick from John Bannon (Twisted Sisters) but whenever I have pulled that little plastic wallet out in the past I just get; "Why are they in there? Are they Trick cards?" So I would like to know how to present this, as the effect is awesome.

If you are unfamiliar with the trick, it consists of 4 red and 4 blue back cards, so it could require two decks the retrieve the cards from.

The cards can be pulled from your wallet, an envelope, a deck of cards or whatever else you want. How they are presented depends on your style and where in the routine you are. It doesn't matter that the backs are of different colors- the specs either won't see them at all when they are introduced or you will pull them out of your red deck and show all of the backs to be red via lifts, counts, etc.

HalfJack wrote:If you are familiar with it, though. An extra convincer would be good, as my elmesly count is WEAK.

Then you are not ready to perform it. Practice, practice, practice. If you continue to have problems I suggest three things: 1.) Identify the problem. Is it a matter of mechanics or a matter of confidence? 2.) Watch and read explanations from more than one source. You will likely pick up a little afterthought of the teacher that ends up being the last piece of the puzzle for you. 3.) Record yourself. Position the camera exactly where the spec would be. Tilt it similar to what the head would be at. Perform the trick, with patter, over and over while treating the camera as your spec. Look at the camera, not your hands, while performing the count. After you've done it a dozen or so times, review the footage and take notes. Rinse and repeat- making modifications to your handling based on your notes. Resist the urge to only perform the count. Resist the urge to watch after every performance.

HalfJack wrote:Well there was going to be another trick I needed help with, but while writing this, I realised I had the ending wrong and the bit I needed advice for was not really needed at all.

I'll write it out, though, as there may be a valid discussion point within.

It basically concerns any reveal performed in a trick using a key card.

I have found, watching certain friends and others perform these sort of tricks, that no matter how elaborate the set up of the trick, the reveal is them fanning the faces towards them and frantically looking for the key card.

It just seems to me if I did that, the participant and audience will just be thinking "We'll he's marked it somehow and he's just looking for it".

So my idea was to place a single dummy card in the deck. Perhaps a blank, or one with DECOY written across it. And then while looking for the selected card, select this dummy and put it on the table, controlling the selected to the bottom at the same time. For the reveal I could then use something like the hot shot cut (childish maybe? but a crowd-pleaser) before revealing the decoy.

My reasoning would be that the break from putting the card on the table to revealing the chosen card would cloud any viewer's recollection of me picking up the cards and looking through them.

What you have described is essentially Insidious Dr. Fu Liu Tu from Royal Road to Card Magic. Check it out for a better working and presentation.

Hope this helps and good luck. I don't know much about the effect/reveal of the first trick that you mentioned but it sounds like Twisted Sisters would be your best bet for the closer if you don't mind ending dirty.

Hi HalfJack. The deck switch could be done in many ways, the best one will depend on the actual circumstances, your dress etc. A servante on the back of a chair or table, a pocket switch while you turn away as the card is being shown, a lap switch if youre seated at a table. If you use a topit this presents other opertunities. In running through your routine look for moments when the switch could be done, so it fits in and wont cause suspision. Your idea of switching while bringing out the odd card would work aswell.

Twisted Sisters. To be honest id not bother taking them from a deck, work on a presentation that justifies you having them seperate. If you think about it the end of the effect is that if they chose any other cards the trick wouldnt have worked, because the rest of the cards are Jokers. The cards dont magically change to jokers, they were apparently jokers from the start - so how would a deck of cards have 3 jokers ?

Key card. This will depend on your reveal, how do you plan on revealing the selection ? A reveal which would justify looking through the deck would be to remove the joker which then turns into the selection. Also remember a key card is by no means limited to the face of the card. I really like crimp work - it is more or less a key card but can be found instantly without having to look through the deck

jim

Couple of other suggestions on the Elmsley count:

*Handle every card the same, from grip to rhythm.
*Experiment with different pressure in the fingertips.
*Don't actually count the cards out loud.

And if you are still having problems:
*Don't be afraid to try roughing fluid. The cards are already dirty anyway.
*Use a bigger action to cover a smaller action when it's time to do the dirty work. The key is to not break the rhythm.

When it comes to counts, consistent flow and rhythm are much more important than whether or not the the hidden card(s) perfectly align or not. The human brain relaxes when there is flow and rhythm and becomes uneasy when there are jerky motions and off beat noises. Keep the hands moving in the same speed and pattern and that will satisfy them visually.

If you have the hand work down then the sound naturally follows as it is the result of the cards, hands, table, etc. coming into contact. This consistent rhythm will satisfy their hearing. Their brain is more relaxed and thus not alert to something being up and more forgiving (less likely to notice) the hidden card not being perfectly aligned.

An outside factor is your voice. If you are pattering during the count, you have to make damn sure that you do nothing to indirectly indicate that you are up to something. No pauses in the middle of sentences, hesitation or stress in voice, etc. IMO, it is better to announce what you are going to show them and then do the count. This way you don't have to worry about voice problems. You also set up conditioning- somewhere in the back of their brain is the thought, "He said he would show me four queens and he did. I can trust him'." All of these minor things adds up to easing their mind and putting them to the mindset of wanting to be entertained rather than wanting to burn your hands to figure how the who, what, when, where, why and how.

At least that's the theory anyway.

Same theory applies to false cuts.

.robb. wrote: "He said he would show me four queens and he did. I can trust him'."

Not sure if youre thinking of the right effect here. In Twisted Sisters the audience arent shown the queens, they are asked to imagine that the packets each contain four queens.

jim

If it helps at all, I do a "THIS and THAT" card trick and store the three cards in a normal card packet. I've got a normal deck inside, close the flap and then slide the cards between the flap where it tucks in and the front of the pack. I can get the three cards directly from there or just pull them out and pocket them if I'm doing something with the deck inside.

I've done both a few times and have never been seriously questioned about either.

I say absolutely nothing to cover what I'm doing. I just take the cards out and pocket them like it's the most normal, reasonable and natural thing to do - because it is.
Worst case... "Wait - what are they?", I smile and then "These? Oh I'll show you in a minute, but check this out first." and the heat's off... then they are expecting them when I produce them and it's all good.

jim ferguson wrote:

.robb. wrote: "He said he would show me four queens and he did. I can trust him'."

Not sure if youre thinking of the right effect here. In Twisted Sisters the audience arent shown the queens, they are asked to imagine that the packets each contain four queens.

jim

Sorry. "He showed me two packets each containing four cards. One packet was red backed, the other blue." You get the idea. Applies to any count with any cards.

Thanks all, this has been very helpful.

DaveM wrote:The idea of putting a decoy card in with "Decoy" written in big letters is ok. Maybe writing "Wrong card!" is funnier. It'll add a bit of comedy to it if presented right and can use this to distract by slapping it face down and saying "There! Is that your card?"... they turn it over... "Oh sorry! Did I pick the wrong card?"

Yeah, that's the idea. Maybe I would have had them hold or cover it while I produced the selection.

"There's your card. So, what was this? Oh, that was just a decoy.."


I have no experience palming any cards and having them appear elsewhere, but that would be good, maybe to have the dummy card say "look under your glass" etc.

I can already see them disconnecting the look from the find.

.robb. wrote:I have no idea what effect you are performing here but, IMO, you need to work the handling to not need a deck swap. Especially so instantly. Generally speaking, deck swaps are not pulled in the middle of a trick like that. Normally you would work a deck swap into the routine- card trick with deck A, coin trick, card trick with deck B, etc.

If you can honestly palm out a deck of cards and palm in a deck from the same pocket undetected then you should be able to rework the handling of the trick to only use one deck.

Yes, this is a tricky one, as now If I describe the effect, I think the whole trick is on show here. Not that it is my trick, I don't feel I can explain much further without giving it all away. But It can't really be done with one deck. If anyone wants to know, I can PM.

But I think I may have found a way that works for me.. Because the trick doesn't need a whole deck, just half or thereabouts.

I can produce a full pack in its box, display all cards, cut the deck, place half back in the box, have a selection from the open half, then when they show it around, gather up the open half in hand, pick up the box in the same, say "We don't need this half.." placing the whole lot in my pocket to exchange.

.robb. wrote:

HalfJack wrote:If you are familiar with it, though. An extra convincer would be good, as my elmesly count is WEAK.

Then you are not ready to perform it. Practice, practice, practice.

Fair Point, well made.

.robb. wrote:What you have described is essentially Insidious Dr. Fu Liu Tu from Royal Road to Card Magic. Check it out for a better working and presentation.

I will check it out!

jim ferguson wrote:To be honest id not bother taking them from a deck, work on a presentation that justifies you having them seperate. If you think about it the end of the effect is that if they chose any other cards the trick wouldnt have worked, because the rest of the cards are Jokers. The cards dont magically change to jokers, they were apparently jokers from the start - so how would a deck of cards have 3 jokers ?

Oh right, I was working on the assumption that the effect was they had changed into jokers, some how. I do recall the first time watching it, we were going "But what if I had chose the Queen of hearts!!!?" dumbfounded.

I'll re-read the presentation, for sure.

jim ferguson wrote: Also remember a key card is by no means limited to the face of the card. I really like crimp work - it is more or less a key card but can be found instantly without having to look through the deck

Thanks, I need to check that out, too.

Your description of the first trick you will perform sounds hilarious. Seriously, do yourself a favour and don't perform this as your opener. I reckon you will more likely get away with it if you start one of the two packet tricks you describe, then move on to the trick with the whole deck. Then if you don't get away with the switch you can move straight on with the third trick quickly before you lose the audience.

With regard to misdirecting the audience while performing the switch, I find it really works to have something funny written on the card they choose - if you are going to switch that deck of cards anyway then you can write it on all the cards, something to get a laugh off the audience, I think you know what I mean. You can then switch the decks secretly while they are looking and laughing about what you wrote on the selected card.