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Postby phillipnorthfield » Jan 27th, '11, 21:40



stephen james durant wrote:Yes Dale. However, it wasn't that I found the psuedo approach unsuccessful, but rather that I didn't feel comfortable with the ethics. Pauedo psychic or pseudo psychological seem to me to be equally dishonest, especially when stated directly.


Paedo Psychic? :shock:

:lol:

The problem now is that Psychology has become the new black as it were. Nyman talks somewhere about how it is easy to not think about what you are doing and just pretend you are psychic, whereas I think that has no turned full circle and become the opposite. Now it's all too easy to learn a few stock lines about body language and go down that route.

It's just as much baloney as claiming to be psychic of course but , so called 'ethics' come into play. If you want to talk about the ethics of lying, why on earth did you become a magician!

Bottom line, do what you wan't, ignore everything everyone else says (even this if you are so inclined) and do what the audiences want. The simple and depresing fact of the matter is that as magicians we are thinking about this sort of thing way to much. Spend the time on something more productive instead.

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Postby daleshrimpton » Jan 27th, '11, 21:54

I would say the opposite. Its sad that magicians dont think about this kind of thing now and again. Most seem happy to copy the latest trend in presentation, and impersonate who ever the big magician is at the time. be it David Blaine, Derren Brown, Jeff McBride , Channing Pollock, ect.

thought about why one presents their magic , and how one presents it, promotes Originality in presentations.

you're like Yoda.you dont say much, but what you do say is worth listening to....
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Postby stephen james durant » Jan 27th, '11, 22:06

Hi Phillip,
Thanks for pointing out the typo....OMG :oops:

The reason I like discussing ethics is because I find the subject mentally stimulating, I enjoy getting feedback on my thoughts and value the opinions of others (even if I dissagree with them). I'm sure you'll agree that ethical issues regarding magic and mentalism are quite different.

When I want to be productive I go to work :D

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Postby phillipnorthfield » Jan 27th, '11, 23:02

stephen james durant wrote:Hi Phillip,
Thanks for pointing out the typo....OMG :oops:

The reason I like discussing ethics is because I find the subject mentally stimulating, I enjoy getting feedback on my thoughts and value the opinions of others (even if I dissagree with them). I'm sure you'll agree that ethical issues regarding magic and mentalism are quite different.

When I want to be productive I go to work :D


Of course :) , it's probably stimulating because its a rhetorical/circular argument.

I still think Magicians are in some way bitter that what they do is percieved as 'clever tricks' and what we do as 'real' I don't mean to seperate magic and mentalism into two catergories because after all it is just tricks at the end of the day, and one is of course not necesarily better than the other. The world has bigger issues at stake.

The video posted before summed it up perfectly for me when Teller said (and interestingly this was one of the very few things I agreed with him on) That if you are presenting this as real, it is the most boring thing in the world, it's natural, theres nothing your doing to make it happen then why is it worth my time if your not even trying?

Of course Dale's right about magicians not putting any originality and thought into what they do anymore. Valentino was in my opinion helpful, but not helpful enough in pushing them in the right direction. Were still stuck with base illusions and tired presentations, and what's worse the performers seem to have become worse as well. It's a shame really.

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