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Hello everybody,

So, next Sunday I have asked to go to my Aunties birthday party and perform some magic. Just lately, I have been practising a lot of 'mind reading' effects, particularly with a awesome pack of ESP cards I recently purchased (beyond ESP 3). I love Derren Brown, and have seen nearly all of his shows.

So the thing I want to ask you guys, is, well, how can I come across as someone like Derren. Obviously I'm not, but with mentalism tricks, and specifically with the ones I know, it's 10% work and 90% performance. One of my favourite tricks is where their 5 ESP symbols on the table math your 5 ESP symbols on the table. Now I could do that trick in under a minute, but I don't want to do that. Can anyone give me some good patter? About ESP cards in particular as that's what I will be using.

What are the different types of 'mind reading'? I'm sure they have different names I'm just not sure of them.

I think you get what information I am looking for

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards;

Daniel

I predict that many people will suggest that you do not try to be like Derren Brown. They will provide some very compelling reasons and explain how simply reciting someone else's patter will cause a number of problems for you.

If you just want to copy Derren then you already seem to know the answer, which is to work on your presentation and make a simple trick appear to be something else. Learn about misdirection from magic books, do a little research into the types of mind-reading that people explore (Wikipedia can help) and watch lots of Derren Brown DVDs. You should then be in great shape to perform an amateur emulation of the man.

To everyone else: this is either the genuine post of someone who wants to have a little casual, harmless fun - in which case there's no point in lambasting him. Or it's Jennings (or his like), in which case there's still no point in lambasting him

T.

Ted wrote:I predict that many people will suggest that you do not try to be like Derren Brown. They will provide some very compelling reasons and explain how simply reciting someone else's patter will cause a number of problems for you.

If you just want to copy Derren then you already seem to know the answer, which is to work on your presentation and make a simple trick appear to be something else. Learn about misdirection from magic books, do a little research into the types of mind-reading that people explore (Wikipedia can help) and watch lots of Derren Brown DVDs. You should then be in great shape to perform an amateur emulation of the man.

To everyone else: this is either the genuine post of someone who wants to have a little casual, harmless fun - in which case there's no point in lambasting him. Or it's Jennings (or his like), in which case there's still no point in lambasting him

T.

Hey,

thanks for the reply. I don't want to copy exactly what he does, neither do I want to copy his patter word for word. I just really like his style.

I don't want to come across as a 15 year old who is performing a trick that is east and effortless. I want it to look like the 'mentalism' is hard to do, and it is hard to read the person. Derren presents his 'mentalism' in such a way that looks like it would take years to learn; I want to accomplish a similar effect.


Also, in a mentalism trick, do you think it would make it seem more 'real' if I were to get some of the 'mind reading' wrong every now and then. Would it arouse suspicion if I were to constantly name every card the spectator thought of?

And also, one more question to throw in here, if anyone could give me some info on this that would be great. What are the different types of mentalism? I know one of them is called Clairvoyancy, and there are a couple of others which I would like to know to include in my patter.

Regards,

Daniel

I have found that many tricks can be turned to look like they are mindreading tricks.

I touch my temples a lot and look directly into their eyes before looking off into the distance (think NLP cues) before making their thought concrete. Slowly revealing their thought is very powerful, and has helped me become better at reading body language. I like to misguide my subjects as to how I'm reading their minds.

Anyway, let's say I'm doing a mind reading card trick. The subject is thinking of their card, the 4 of hearts. I'll look at the subject and tell them:

"Picture your card. Imagine you're holding it, saying the name loudly over and over. Don't say the name out loud, just say it in your head."

Now I'll look at them squarely in the face. Then look at them as a whole. Finally I give a load of bullsh*t to them. "You're showing me your wedding ring. Rings are a sign of love, so it must be a red card... it's a heart, isn't it? It is, it is a heart."

The subject will confirm this, with a not, a chuckle, a blink. There will be some sign. Although you know what the card it, read those signs - they will help you become a better reader of body language.

"OK, you've covered your mouth. You're trying to give nothing away, but you've covered it with four fingers, so that means it must be a 4. It's the... is it the... yes it is. It's the four of hearts!"

You want people to believe you really are reading their minds, so don't just reveal their chosen <object>, look like you are probing their thoughts to find the right answer.

That's what works for me as a novice, anyway.

Yeah,

One of the tricks I will definitely be doing is where I have 5 zenner cards with the 5 symbols and the spectator has 5 cards with the 5 symbols also. And said spectator is asked to put one on the table and then I have to match mine up. Of course, I know straight away. Some ideas I have had for patter are "Okay, so you have put one card down on the table which has one of the 5 symbols on it, it was a completely free choice and I didn't influence it in any way. So in your mind I want you to imagine all 5 of the cards in front of you, and one at a time I want you to imagine each one turning around so it is facing away from you, until there is only one left facing you, the one you have put down on the table. Once you have done that, I want you to imagine the card getting bigger, and magnifying towards you, as you see each individual pixel of ink on the card. OKay, yes, I think... yes I think I've got it."

That's one of my favourites to do, and I also love the one where you get them to shout it out loud in their head.

The only way you can REALLY develop your own patter and style is to go out and do what your doing, perform. By the sounds of your post you sound like your quite new to it so just let yourself develop. My tip is try not to script too much. It comes across as you a reading frmo a script. Have a conversation with your audience, and that comes with performing experience.

In terms of people thinking your just a kid doing a card trick, unfortunatly you have age against you here. Its a bit c*** (not the best), I wanted to do hypnotism when I was about 14, but people just dont believe a 14 year old has that type of power. I was 18 before I got it down to a T. Just make sure you enjoy performing and learn from it is what I say dont worry so much.

Basically, I agree with what Ted said.

However, as Google is apparently broken (although it worked for me): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pa ... ogy_topics

I shall merely add that there are two obvious problems. First, you have less than a week to research, invent and perfect a brand new presentation for a trick (or more than one), when your intention is to use terms about which you apparently know very little at the moment.

The second issue is that you mentioned being 15, but wish to use a presentation that involves you being highly skilled at something that takes years to master. This is tricky enough for someone of your age (or was the 15 plucked out of nowhere - I was thinking of 37 myself), but you are going to try this in front of people who know you. It's not impossible, but it will take a lot of thought on your part, and I don't think you have the time.

If your aim is just to have some flim-flam with which to dress up your tricks, and you don't intend to sound even remotely convincing, then go for it, but I fear that even then time is against you. If you set unrealistic goals, you will only be disappointed. You really need to take time to think about this stuff, and what actually works for you.

Part-Timer wrote:Basically, I agree with what Ted said.

However, as Google is apparently broken (although it worked for me): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pa ... ogy_topics

I shall merely add that there are two obvious problems. First, you have less than a week to research, invent and perfect a brand new presentation for a trick (or more than one), when your intention is to use terms about which you apparently know very little at the moment.

The second issue is that you mentioned being 15, but wish to use a presentation that involves you being highly skilled at something that takes years to master. This is tricky enough for someone of your age (or was the 15 plucked out of nowhere - I was thinking of 37 myself), but you are going to try this in front of people who know you. It's not impossible, but it will take a lot of thought on your part, and I don't think you have the time.

If your aim is just to have some flim-flam with which to dress up your tricks, and you don't intend to sound even remotely convincing, then go for it, but I fear that even then time is against you. If you set unrealistic goals, you will only be disappointed. You really need to take time to think about this stuff, and what actually works for you.

On Sunday I will be performing for people I don't know at a party, not people I know.

Thanks for the help, I shall look up some things over the week and by Sunday I should have enough information to do what I want to do and achieve what I want to achieve.

I think age will be against you if you want to do the derren thing, purely based on the effect that his character has on people, he comes across as someone who has spent alot of time learning obscure techniques.I think it might be more interesting for you to do a oneoff effect/stunt, maybe from a psychic angle. I taught my seven year old daughter the arm twist, which she then showed some friends of mine and they freaked out and thought she must be double jointed, where as if you were known for being a magician people will more likely believe it was a trick. You can really create some powerful moments when magic is used in a different context.

Just remember that you don't really want people to believe you're a psychic? or do you? I find this to be extremely important, I'm can easily imagine where you are in your mentalism "stage" right now, cause I've been there myself.
And I to think Derren Brown is amazing, mostly because he seems to be revealing the so called psychics scams, while doing his own "illusions/tricks", he's is obviously lying about almost everything, but he's being honest about it. I actually thinks he says something like that in his shows.

For the ESP routine, what I like to do is to force a "marked card" so that you instantly can find it, but the spec don't see it. Turn your back away and tell your assistant to select 4 more indifferent cards, and line them up on the table, just make sure she remembers where her card is in the row of 5 cards. Turn around and introduce your ESP cards, Explain a bit about their origin and uses and stuff. Give her 5 of the ESP cards and tell her to commit to one of the symbols not telling you which one. And thereafter tell her to place the ESP cards on top of the others, placing her new only thought of Esp card face up on top on her previously selected card, and the others randomly on the other 4 cards.
(the reason for this is if you use marked playing cards you'll cover up any heat on the cards)

After this you know which symbol she chose simply cause you know where the force card was placed. And now you can pull of anything you want, like. Making her say yes to every ESP card and you'll make up something about tics that revealed her thoughts, anything....

But let me be honest I haven't really tried this yet since I'm currently travelling in the US, and I have no cards or anything with me, all this is therefore only theory and I don't know if I have missed anything.

But Play with and let me know what you think.

All the best

Nick

Firstly and most importantly, don't try to copy Derren, it really wont work. Be yourself, come up with your own explainations, perhaps you could talk a little about the history of ESP cards and explain that you'd like to try a little experiment with your audience.

If you want to be believable then your background story has to make sense. People are going to find it very hard to believe that a 15 year old is an expert in psychology and body language but they might be able to accept that you've read a little into parapsychology and want to try a couple of things out on them.

Mouth zipped, smiling gently at the world, deep breaths, and just keep walking...

^ what they said about your age.

You also need to know that your family will have absolutely no expectation that you have any special powers, other than the knack for cunning stunts. You simply can't hope to fool them that you have any special powers.

Now, if you were to, say, read a couple of essays on pschology, hypnosis, body reading and things like NLP then you could quite convincingly say that you have learned face reading (or whatever). I know quite a few fifteen-year-olds that could get away with having studied body language to the point where they can "read" patterns.

Or go with Tarot and tell your aunts (aunts love tarot and all that jazz) that they are going to have a baby!

Your young, and this is going to be for your family right ?

So LIE.

Start small and as the months and years go on, build the lie.

So say you want to be a psychological style reader. (NOthing wrong with that as long as you become you and not a clone)

Just learn one skill and learn it will.

Say you want to be able to claim you can read tells. Do one effect and 'play' with them telling them you have learnt some bits in a book and you want to try it out. Do not present it as magic or i want to perform, but in an informal situation you can easily miss as your learning and your family will just accept it.

Hope that makes some sense ... it does to me lol..

Evie x

utd4life wrote:On Sunday I will be performing for people I don't know at a party, not people I know.

Does your aunt not attend her own parties?