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When I started reading RRTCM I was told that I'd be better of with some of the more graphic (i.e. lots of photo's) books available.

I did persevere and it was probably harder that some of the video/DVD offerings today. There are a couple of sets which go for around £25 each - one is from Magic Makers. inc and is is 7 volumes (all for £30 including post from ebay - still see this come up from time to time) it's called 'Complete Card Magic'. The other set I have lost the name of (they're out on loan - too much stuff to watch and needed to lose them to help me concentrate on one aspect at a time ) but will post when I have the information if it would help.

In addition Michael Ammar is always good value (With of course Mr. McBride) and there's always lectures (join a club, it's the only way to do this stuff well - you need peers).

Anyway - that's about it I think,

Vic

Best tip - don't buy to many 'instant' trick and learn what you buy - master it before adding or moving on.

Hi Matt Register and I'll PM you about meeting up some time as I'm only in the notts area (Mansfield to be precise) not Nottingham itself.

I am quite surprised that no one has recommended thee Card college Series.

I cant recommend this set of books highly enough. For someone that is interested in learning card magic this is i believe the purchase that need to be done.

The following is a brief intro in the first book.

The first volume in this landmark course sets the groundwork for the rest of the series, beginning with lessons on the proper ways to hold, deal and shuffle the cards, then progressing through many basic sleights and techniques, including perhaps the most thorough and revealing discussion of the classic force ever offered. Along with the classics of card magic, Mr. Giobbi includes original ideas and refinements from his own repertoire, guaranteeing every reader, no matter how experienced, fresh techniques and insights into the performance of professional caliber card magic! Some of the topics covered in Volume One include:

The Tools of Card Magic
Fundamental Techniques
The Overhand Shuffle
The Riffle Shuffle
False Cuts
Transfer Cuts
Card Controls
Card Forces
The Glide
The DL
The Hindu Shuffle
Flourishes
The Spread Cull
The Top Change
The Key Card
Auxiliary Sleights

Hope this helps

When I was starting I looked at Giobbi and the chap behind the counter smiled in a kindly, but knowing fashion, and told me that that was a good book for later and that I should do my homework and start with the primer - RRTCM.

I did and am grateful for the wisdom. That said - I have Giobbi's works on my shelf and reckon they're good. Thinking about it now, I'd say that Giobbi's offerings would suit the less 'bookish' among us. I have to read for my profession and the books I read make your head hurt (one page a day and then lie in a dark room stuff ) so I can appreciate that Royal Road might not be the best for everyone - but if perservered with gives lasting benefits - honest.

Vic

Happy Toad wrote:Saying that if the Jog shuffle is a sleight that you feel is absolutely neccessary to learn in your early stages of learning magic and your quite happy to learn from mainly text, then rush out and buy it.

Personally, I think, if you can do a good job shuffle it will fry almost any audience as not a lot of people can do a good job shuffle.....as I said a few other books teach or mention it but only Erdnase and the RRTCM teach the proper method and Erdnase is even more difficult to get on with than RRTCM.

Also it doesn't matter when you learn it, at the beginning, middle or end stages of learning magic, if you want to learn the jog shuffle correctly then I think you will have to, at sometime, learn it from one of the above mentioned books.

Take your choice, if you don't want to learn the shuffle then that's completely up to you, but from personal experiece, I use it, and as I said, I think it will fry most audiences, because done correctly, it looks like a completely normal overhand shuffle but it keeps complete control of the cards....top stock or bottom stock or whatever you want to do with it!

Just my humble opinion...

Erdnase and the RRTCM teach the proper method and Erdnase is even more difficult to get on with than RRTCM.

For me you say it all in this statement. Even you are admitting that RRTCM is difficult to get on with. I think RRTCM has much of value but the fact it is difficult to get on with makes it a poor choice for many as a starter book. Of course equally that is just MHO.

I still believe that Card college is far more easier to understand than both these books put together, with nice clear diagrams to illustrate what the slights should look like.

Happy Toad wrote:For me you say it all in this statement. Even you are admitting that RRTCM is difficult to get on with. I think RRTCM has much of value but the fact it is difficult to get on with makes it a poor choice for many as a starter book. Of course equally that is just MHO.

Sorry Happy Toad, I obviously gave you and probably everyone the wrong impression but that wasn't what I was trying to say.....

Maybe I should have said.....if you found RRTCM difficult, then you will find Erdnase even more difficult, so it would be advisable, if you want to learn the jog shuffle that you use the RRTCM rather than Erdnase.

So I disagree, I personally like RRTCM, I think it's a great book....I didn't find it that difficult to get on with, so maybe we will have to agree to disagree on that one.......everyone has their own opinions after all.

I'm not sure if Matteo is interested - but if you ARE looking for basics on coin magic - a MUST HAVE is David Roths' Expert Coin Magic Made Easy series. The man is the master, and his instructions are precise and easy to follow. Start from volume 1, then move up through the series and into his more advanced stuff. If you like coin work, this is the perfect place to start (next to Bobo, of course)

go to ellusionist.com, they have the best, mind-ripping tricks you have ever seen. They teach you the stuff you NEED to know such as the pass, the glide, forcing techniques, ambitious card routine, 2 card monte, and other sleights and tricks. Be sure to invest in these people they are the best of the best. They offer super-high quality products at a super-low price(considering the quality of the products,) You will NOT be disappointed. If you want to get started with street magic, you can get the Street Magic Package and start amazing friends, family, strangers, whoever, in a matter of minutes after watchng the video(s). Go now, visit this site, Young Padawon!

Mocchi,

$17 for two card monte download

$13 for a force method download

$13 for a card warp effect download

$15 for a shapeshifter download

Bro, if that's cheap...I don't want to know what stores you find expensive!

There are TONS of places that offer cheaper prices than that. Don't get me wrong, Ellusionist has some decent merchandise, but they tend to inflate their prices. If you're just starting out, go with a solid book (Royal Road, Card College) or even a video (the Daryl and Ammar series' are great). Don't spend money on individual effects as a way to start.

mocchi wrote:go to ellusionist.com, they have the best, mind-ripping tricks you have ever seen. They teach you the stuff you NEED to know such as the pass, the glide, forcing techniques, ambitious card routine, 2 card monte, and other sleights and tricks. Be sure to invest in these people they are the best of the best. They offer super-high quality products at a super-low price(considering the quality of the products,) You will NOT be disappointed. If you want to get started with street magic, you can get the Street Magic Package and start amazing friends, family, strangers, whoever, in a matter of minutes after watchng the video(s). Go now, visit this site, Young Padawon!

mocchi, are you getting some kind of commision from ellusionist.com, as it's already been stated by others that their prices are inflated and most of what you suggest can be learnt from other sources at a fraction of the cost.....Your post seems like a sales pitch to me.....

If I was a young person interested in magic, and there are quite a few who visit this forum....I might just believe your advice and I would not be happy with the results of your advice......

As I don't think it is right to advice someone that they can learn 'mind ripping effects within minutes (whatever that is.....when it's at home ) as no matter who you are or how good a magician you are, learning effects to an acceptable standard within minutes is just not possible.

You state that ellusionist.com are the best of the best....and that they offer super-high quality products....both these statements are entirely your opinion....how can you determine or grade an online dealer or his products as super-high quality...whatever that is....??? When there are other sites offering exactly the same products...so they must be super-high quality as well then.....

There are many website dealers out there, some good some bad, you may have had some good experiences of ellusionist.com, But I am unsure you have the necessary experience of using other dealers to make these type of glowing recommendations of this particular dealer, unless you have some kind of personal interest....I may be wrong but as I said I am unsure....

Not sure about you I mean...as are probably most of the members of the forum, as I noticed that you haven't introduced yourself in the introductions section......It might be a good idea to go and do that now....so that we will know who you are and what your interests and experience is......Then people would not be inclined to make judgements

I have to add that the only 'mind ripping tricks' I have come across were in the nature of 'ripping one off!'. I am saddened by the fact that so many people (myself included - I've been that man) rush out to buy that killer trick - the one that works out of the box and stuns everyone!

There ain't no such animal, for even the easiest of tricks requires practice, application, patter, personality and timing to make it worthwhile.

I'd echo the fact that there are many magic suppliers who seek to make money from those who believe that these mind-ripping tricks exist on an 'open the packet and perfom - no skill needed basis'. I have spent more time pricing and comparing tricks. This is of course extremely difficult (i.e. impossible) for many tricks look the same and the only way to check quality is to visit each suppier or to ellicit the advice of those on this forum who can point one towards value-for-money and quality.

I'm not getting into a war over prices, but I have noticed that there are many people selling the same product at widely varying prices. If there's an axe to grind, then it should be for value, customer service andsupport. Anyone who pushes the no skill button loses me before they start to get my business. We need to see good, honest and reasoned arguments here if this site is to be of real use (especially to those starting out).

Thanks,

vic_vdb wrote: for even the easiest of tricks requires practice, application, patter, personality and timing to make it worthwhile.

Well said that man!! (that statement could even win the cigar )

Just for the record I'm in agreement with Vic and JB on this one.