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Have a spectator choose and remember a card. Hold the deck messily in your hand and ask them to place their card back on top, face down.

Perform E****** move under cover of squaring the deck.

Remove 'their' top card and {eat, burn, bury in deck, drop into the ocean, place on table, etc}.

Reveal that their card has {reconstituted, risen, beamed, recombobulated, changed places} on top of the deck again.

Is this decent? A well-known technique? Is there a blindingly obvious reason why it's a bad idea, or an obviously better method to use for this effect?

Just seems to me that the E****** colour change is always used for a (very nice) visual card change, and that this more subtle employment of the technique is overlooked. Or perhaps I just haven't read enough around the subject yet, which I can well believe to be the case.

edit: Just thinking out-loud really - mods, if this is sailing close to the wind then just delete it, no worries. No exposure intended.

Sounds interesting. I'm pretty sure it's been done face down before (If anyone's published routines with it, it's probably Sankey), but the use as a control seems new.

My only criticism would be that having it placed on the top before moving it seems unnecessary and the time it takes to square the pack would make the top card "feel" less like it was their card. For the situation you described, I would just stick to a top change.

Sounds like there would be a lot going on there for people to look at.


My favourite control for when I get to put their card on top of the deck before burying it in the middle looks like this.

I'm sure you can see what's going on here, but trust me, spectators don't.

The lay will assume you palm the card off when you square up the deck

Arkesus wrote:My favourite control for when I get to put their card on top of the deck before burying it in the middle looks like this.

I'm sure you can see what's going on here, but trust me, spectators don't.

Hi Arkesus, this is a nice control. Where can I learn how to do that?

Thanks
LP.

I think this falls into the 'impractical in the real world' technique section.
I used to do ACRs all the time and the ECS is something I looked at using, it sounds fine but in reality a top palm or top change works better (in my experience)

It is a nice idea but I'd go with the top change, and if I were to place the card on the table I'd simply second deal. The Erdnase colour change is to be done openly in front of the eyes, to try and hide it as a 'move' seems a little odd to me.

That said, if it can be practised and done relatively quickly its as good a move as any.

Thanks for the feedback all.

Sleightlycrazy, that's a good point about it being unnecessary to put the card on top only to take it off again. That's something which could be ironed out in a routine.

Arkesus; there's really not that much 'going on'. It only takes a fraction of a second to tidy the deck up and switch the cards, and (imho) it looks very much like their card is in view all the time. Your control is excellent though, I can't spot how you're doing it

Daleshrimpton; would they? Just make sure your hands are loose and open and I can't see why they'd think that.

yes they would. and no amount of convincing after the event will change this. You also have to remember that in doing an Erdnase face down, you loose the shock value in the colour change.
The audience know you did something. they may not know what, but the surprise that the new card face gives them, is enough to make them forget what you just did.

if you do something, and nothing happens,they are likely to dwell on what you have done.

this will all be in the timing.

Thanks,

Yeah, I can see that there are much cleaner ways to achieve the same thing, so why would you want to do it this way.

The thing is, the action used for the change (or in this case switch) doesnt resemble the normal action for squaring the cards - I have never, nor have i seen anyone else square up a deck of cards by placing the palm flat on top and covering the whole of the top card. As Dale pointed out, the spectators may not know exactly what you did, but they'll have a suspision that something fishy has taken place. Remember, any move should ideally immitate reality.

There have been many solutions to the problem of switching the top two cards, some have been good, some not so. I assume youre idea was for the first phase of the ACR ? For years I used a method from 'Expert Card Technique' (with my own method for facing the card), its bold but very effective. Lately however ive been toying with using Michael Close' Spread DL for the first phase (with a little touch of Michael Vincents).

jim

PS. Regarding the placing of the card on top before before taking it and putting it in the centre being uneccecary. I dont know your performing conditions but if you have a table or working surface handy try the following : After the exchange or whatever you have the card second but the spectators believe it to be on top. Now instead of removing the top card, spread the deck on the table first, then take the top card and slide it into the centre of the spread - leaving it out-jogged. Then gather up the cards and push the card flush. It seems very fair and has a sort of hands off feel to it.

The best way IMO is to do a bluff pass or marlo tilt to get the card to second position.Show it to be on top (second card) via a DL.Then deal the top card into the ocean leaving the selection on top.

Having said that I don't think you are looking for ways to achieve this routine,rather I believe you are trying to incorprate this move into a routine for the sake of using the move.Nothing wrong with that.It's a creative idea but it can be simplified which means there is no point in using it

Top change all the way, easy and effective. A double achieves the same effect. But again you are faced with putting the card back on the deck only to remove it again. But in the real world, it doesn't make a difference. I'm not sure it makes a difference in the fake world either.

Flood wrote:Having said that I don't think you are looking for ways to achieve this routine,rather I believe you are trying to incorprate this move into a routine for the sake of using the move.Nothing wrong with that.It's a creative idea but it can be simplified which means there is no point in using it

You're spot on

Without giving away too much info there's a nice application of a facedown erdnase on Matthew dowden's party animal discs ( disc 2 I believe). He also mentioned the concept had been used before him, but didn't go into much detail about that.