talkmagic.co.uk

user24 wrote:

mark lewis wrote:Any fool can manipulate cards. It takes a great magician to manipulate the PEOPLE.

Excellent bit of wisdom that.

It doesn't matter how simple the mechanics of the trick are, it's the power of the effect that's key. There are probably hundreds of tricks with complicated sleights and manipulations which don't ever get to the level of perceived effect that a simple glimpsed k**card can get to. Does the fact that you 'just' peeked it devalue the trick? Only if you know how it works! So don't reveal how it works!

The point of performing magic is to give wonder, not to show off great technical skill.

I'd rather watch someone who gave me a sense of wonder but who used no technical skill than someone with great technical skills but no wonder.

Completely agree with this 100%. Was sharing some card stuff amongst fellow magicians, and using the KB Placement sleight - only to be "informed" that it was such an amateur move. Really?! I had no idea there was a hierarchy of sleights - it's served me very well!

I love this one, which I believe is from Tommy Wonder: "I became a Magician to find out how I do that"

Mark.

Dumpster may use the same logic to you when you sell your svengali decks.If only Svengali decks weren't known by the layman.My brother often talks about my svengali trick whenever he's talking to people about the best trick he's ever see me do.

I'm not having a go by any means but I just find it strange that magicians(not you in particular) will do anything to defend their precious secrets yet when there is a wad of cash waved into their face they throw their 'ethic' or 'magician's code' right out the window

I know there is an argument about using the svengali in ways that even the layman a familiar with it's working would overlook but I still find its basic workings to be the most powerful.

As for the 4 ace trick.I remember my brother's girlfriend showed it to me and I was startled but it's everything I hate about card magic.Instructing a spectator to deal 3 cards there then there then there and so on.I'd personally never find any use for it.I'm not going to argue that it's a good effect but I think Dumpster is teaching these kids this trick to try inspire them.If they weren't inspired then they'd probably forget how to do the effect anyways as there is a lot of specific dealing in the trick.

Mark I often read your posts and value your oppinion very much and think your way of putting your oppinion out there as being very funny.I find myself agreeing with what you say most of the time too.But in my opinion,no matter how well you've polished this trick presentation wise,I don't think it's fit for a paying audience

Le Petit Bateleur wrote:I love this one, which I believe is from Tommy Wonder: "I became a Magician to find out how I do that"

I think that's great!

Flood. If you don't think Poker Player's Picnic is fit for a paying audience you are a pillock of the first order. Do you honestly think that I, MARK LEWIS one of the world's greatest magicians would do this trick for 50 years if it were no good. And you will notice that others on this thread have attested to the reaction it gets.

If Dumpster wishes to inspire the little brats he "entertains" it would behoove him to teach the 21 card trick or the four burglars which have already been exposed to high heaven. He has no right to expose one of the greatest card tricks of all time. As for the dealing so what? There are indeed other versions which are supposed to be better which require no dealing but they all have one weakness. The deck has to be handled by the magician. The original method is the best simply because the spectator does it all and the magician doesn't even touch the cards.

You really have to learn the psychology of doing card tricks, my boy if you wish to progresss.

As for the svengali deck you are talking utter nonsense. This trick deck is NOT the property of magicians. It is the property of grafters and pitchmen. We stole it from the magicians years ago and it belongs to US, not them. Besides I can assure you that when I sell the svengali deck I am protecting the secrets of magic since nobody has ever been able to do it yet. I make the instructions quite incomprehensible to protect the secrets of my art. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if the punters actually got value for money.

Nobody has ever waved "wads of cash" in front of me to expose this trick and that is my point. This dumpster personage is giving the secret away for NOTHING. If he charged for the secret I would be far more forgiving. But he isn't.

By all means teach a trick. But it should be a simple one and not one that is used professionally by the best magicians. I don't think you realise what a superb trick this is. It is not to be given away to children or in fact anybody at all.

Flood wrote:But in my opinion,no matter how well you've polished this trick presentation wise,I don't think it's fit for a paying audience

Oh good, I get to beat my poor dead horse...again. It is never the effect that is fit, or unfit to perform in front of an audience, (paid or unpaid). It is always the magician who is fit or unfit.

I often wonder (not really because I know the answer) how many magicians are totally entertained and completely fooled by effects they already own, or know about, or dismissed because they think the effect is unworthy of performance by a 'real magician'.

The answer is more than you think. Way more. Back in the day a 'competing' magic shop and I had a friendly competition going (read to the end before you get upset with me/us). The rules were simple: How many times could we sell the Svengali deick to the same person under the guise of it being a different effect? I am sure Mr. Lewis could easily make another fortune doing this, especially for magicians. Honestly I could have made that same few dollars over and over again. Instead I ended up telling them what it was and suggesting the book 35 tricks with a svengali deck, or whatever it was called, and in later years the dvd. So no, I never sold anybody a svengali deck twice (unless the first wore out or they wanted a different card).

I learned early, after I too learned a few effects that I thought should never be performed. Each time however sometimes many years later I'd be watching a magician and to my amazement did the effect to great reacations. More than once by non other than Paul Daniels.

I feel sorry for bmat's horse.

Don't worry its dead!

bmat wrote:The answer is more than you think. Way more. Back in the day a 'competing' magic shop and I had a friendly competition going (read to the end before you get upset with me/us). The rules were simple: How many times could we sell the Svengali deick to the same person under the guise of it being a different effect? I am sure Mr. Lewis could easily make another fortune doing this, especially for magicians. Honestly I could have made that same few dollars over and over again. Instead I ended up telling them what it was and suggesting the book 35 tricks with a svengali deck, or whatever it was called, and in later years the dvd. So no, I never sold anybody a svengali deck twice (unless the first wore out or they wanted a different card).

I learned early, after I too learned a few effects that I thought should never be performed. Each time however sometimes many years later I'd be watching a magician and to my amazement did the effect to great reacations. More than once by non other than Paul Daniels.

mark lewis wrote:Flood. If you don't think Poker Player's Picnic is fit for a paying audience you are a pillock of the first order. Do you honestly think that I, MARK LEWIS one of the world's greatest magicians would do this trick for 50 years if it were no good. And you will notice that others on this thread have attested to the reaction it gets.

If Dumpster wishes to inspire the little brats he "entertains" it would behoove him to teach the 21 card trick or the four burglars which have already been exposed to high heaven. He has no right to expose one of the greatest card tricks of all time. As for the dealing so what? There are indeed other versions which are supposed to be better which require no dealing but they all have one weakness. The deck has to be handled by the magician. The original method is the best simply because the spectator does it all and the magician doesn't even touch the cards.

You really have to learn the psychology of doing card tricks, my boy if you wish to progresss.

As for the svengali deck you are talking utter nonsense. This trick deck is NOT the property of magicians. It is the property of grafters and pitchmen. We stole it from the magicians years ago and it belongs to US, not them. Besides I can assure you that when I sell the svengali deck I am protecting the secrets of magic since nobody has ever been able to do it yet. I make the instructions quite incomprehensible to protect the secrets of my art. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if the punters actually got value for money.

Nobody has ever waved "wads of cash" in front of me to expose this trick and that is my point. This dumpster personage is giving the secret away for NOTHING. If he charged for the secret I would be far more forgiving. But he isn't.

By all means teach a trick. But it should be a simple one and not one that is used professionally by the best magicians. I don't think you realise what a superb trick this is. It is not to be given away to children or in fact anybody at all.

The real problem I have with this trick is the dealing.Card tricks with excessive dealing is the type of thing that in my opinion makes laymen roll their eyes.I try to stay away from it.I think magic should be more direct.I'm not talking down on the ultimate effect of the trick.Like I said I remember being showed this trick and I was startled but the reality is that there are quicker and more effective direct effects out there than this so in my opinion it's a throwaway trick.

Once again it's just MY opinion.You may think it's rubbish but for the sake of this argument I'm going to get my deck and do this to my next spectator to see the reaction.I know it goes down well.

I don't think you are talking rubbish. I KNOW you are! You have admitted the trick baffled you when you first saw it so there is utterly no reason that it won't baffle someone else.

SHOWMANSHIP is the answer to the dealing problem. Chatter away in an interesting manner while they are doing all that dealing. If the dealing bores them it is YOUR fault not the trick's fault.

Probably the greatest card trick of all time, Out of This World, relies on more dealing than any other. However the reaction is fantastic. So don't blame the trick-blame the presentation.

If you have the personality of a dial tone even the greatest miracles will fall flat. It is the showmanship and presentation that make the difference.
Now go and sin no more.

A layman walked into my house last week and performed OOTW to me and my father.No joke

I weas going to start a thread on it

Flood wrote:A layman walked into my house last week and performed OOTW to me and my father.No joke

I weas going to start a thread on it

I learned O.O.T.W. from a layman on my third day of Uni.

A layman is really just an actor, playing the part of a layman.

Why aren't people allowed their own opinions on this forum?
There is no encouragement from some people, only berating. If I were just starting out in magic and stumbled across this forum I would run for the hills and never touch a deck of cards again for fear of upsetting someone.
I have to say Mark that if you have to describe yourself as one of the worlds greatest magicians then chances are, you aren't. No one that good needs to shout about it. If you truly are one of the worlds greatest then I would have hoped in over 50 years of performing you would realise this type of self satisfying banter, whether meant in jest or not, does nothing but leave a sour taste in the mouth.
It's not the first time I've read this sort of response from someone on here, a holier than thou, tyrannical statement that just smacks of ignorance. Thats my opinion by the way, I'm sure many wouldn't agree with it.
You are right though, it's not just the trick itself that is important, it's the presentation. This is something that I find true in everyday life. How you present yourself is the truth that people take away with them, no matter what you may really be like. And I'm afraid Mark how you've presented yourself here isn't good. If you were that incensed by the thought of someome giving away a trick why not PM them? Why not offer them your years of experience?
I joined this forum in the hope of learning from those more experienced than me, and hopefully one day providing encouragement to some one less experienced than me. I guess I could say I have learnt something, I have learnt how not to portray myself. I have learnt to remember where I started and I have learnt what I do not want to become.
Life really is too short.
Enjoy.