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Will try that this evening. You think I'll find that I'm happy with it and won't need to do anything extra?

I'll do the same with a deck in USPCC order and compare. I remember trying four faros with USPCC order and seeing obvious patterns.

(Surely cutting the deck a couple times is the same as cutting once, so I don't get what you mean by that...)

I recommend Earl's Past Midnight discs too. And, I think the production stuff is on Disc 2.

Why do you not spread the cards in front of yourself - and to the spectators - to 'check if they're all there' and whilst that's going on you could be culling the cards to the top. That way you've got the cards where you want them and proved to the audience that they're all in different places in the deck. This way you can allow audience members to genuniely shuffle beforehand, and it will eliminate the need for further cutting or shuffling which some spectators might believe you are using to control the cards.

After that, the reveals are limitless. And Kostya Kimlat's Roadrunner Cull DVD is all you'll need to cull an entire suit to the top.

magicians have a tendency to cut very near 26 cards. if done the arrangement would be no less obvious. cutting the deck a couple times makes the final displacement a little more randomised.

i suppose i could have said cut between 10 and 15 cards to achieve the same effect but the same could be acheived with cutting 10-45 cards.

either way the pattern of a mirror stack is disguised wonderfully with a single cut, and restoring it to a pre-faro position is a simple case of cutting the ace of clubs to the face again.

plus theres oodles of stuff you can do with a mirror stack. particularly a natural mirror stack.

I'll take a look at the Earl...

Grimshaw wrote:Kostya Kimlat's Roadrunner Cull DVD is all you'll need to cull an entire suit to the top.

I didn't know it was possible to cull a full suit without detection. I'll take a look at that DVD! It would be good to have the ability to cull the full suit, regardless of whether or not I use the stacked deck, so that I can perform from a shuffled deck whenever I need to.

the stackman wrote:magicians have a tendency to cut very near 26 cards. if done the arrangement would be no less obvious. cutting the deck a couple times makes the final displacement a little more randomised.

i suppose i could have said cut between 10 and 15 cards to achieve the same effect but the same could be acheived with cutting 10-45 cards.

either way the pattern of a mirror stack is disguised wonderfully with a single cut, and restoring it to a pre-faro position is a simple case of cutting the ace of clubs to the face again.

plus theres oodles of stuff you can do with a mirror stack. particularly a natural mirror stack.

I'm a bit confused by all this cutting, but over all the point here is simply that if the cards are cut, but not cut directly in the middle, the stack is far more deceptive than if you don't cut or if you cut in the middle?

So cutting maybe a quarter or third way through the deck or two thirds or three quarters, rather than in the middle?

The Devil's Tailor wrote:I'll take a look at the Earl...

Grimshaw wrote:Kostya Kimlat's Roadrunner Cull DVD is all you'll need to cull an entire suit to the top.

I didn't know it was possible to cull a full suit without detection. I'll take a look at that DVD! It would be good to have the ability to cull the full suit, regardless of whether or not I use the stacked deck, so that I can perform from a shuffled deck whenever I need to.

you can, but it will take a lot (we're talking years) of practise. and i believe that that is kostya's own position, not mine.

The Devil's Tailor wrote:

the stackman wrote:magicians have a tendency to cut very near 26 cards. if done the arrangement would be no less obvious. cutting the deck a couple times makes the final displacement a little more randomised.

i suppose i could have said cut between 10 and 15 cards to achieve the same effect but the same could be acheived with cutting 10-45 cards.

either way the pattern of a mirror stack is disguised wonderfully with a single cut, and restoring it to a pre-faro position is a simple case of cutting the ace of clubs to the face again.

plus theres oodles of stuff you can do with a mirror stack. particularly a natural mirror stack.

I'm a bit confused by all this cutting, but over all the point here is simply that if the cards are cut, but not cut directly in the middle, the stack is far more deceptive than if you don't cut or if you cut in the middle?

So cutting maybe a quarter or third way through the deck or two thirds or three quarters, rather than in the middle?

sorry i am doing 10 things at one and do have a tendency to ramble.

i was trying to say (in a horribly inarticulate way) cut a mirror stack a any position other than 26 cards and it becomes immediately less likely that anyone will notice an arrangement

YEARS of practise? Oh boy! I want to start doing this routine within, say, a week! The very basics of it at least. It will take a while to develop enough fancy productions.

Maybe I'm better off with the stack, or (when the cards aren't in order) making do by finding the cards manually then 'losing' them, presenting the whole thing like a gambling demo. If the productions are impressive, the specs won't care too much that. And my false shuffles are very deceptive and casual.

the stackman wrote:i was trying to say (in a horribly inarticulate way) cut a mirror stack a any position other than 26 cards and it becomes immediately less likely that anyone will notice an arrangement

Cool. But what's a mirror stack? I have the Tam Mnemonica book but can't recall mirror stacks mentioned.

well, as my name suggests, i am a huge advocate of stacks. if you have a faro in your arsenal and a couple of full deck retentions, you have a tool with too many applications to list here.

(go on then, heres a couple:

faro 1 sets you up for some gilbreath stuff ((with the culling of one card)) faro2 gives you the michael zen poker stack with a double under cut or two and a perfect bridge hand for all four players,
faro 4 is perfect for marlos matching routine and halfway towards the tamariz stack or a new deck order......etc, etc)

so if you choose not to use it for the suit production routine (which could be achieved with a simple stripper deck) then at least have a looksie at the principle as a side project.

The Devil's Tailor wrote:

the stackman wrote:i was trying to say (in a horribly inarticulate way) cut a mirror stack a any position other than 26 cards and it becomes immediately less likely that anyone will notice an arrangement

Cool. But what's a mirror stack? I have the Tam Mnemonica book but can't recall mirror stacks mentioned.

a mirror stack is another term for a stay stack.

and you should have said you own mnemonica. the tamariz stack meets all your requirements.

Well, I think I want something a lot easier to get into than the mnemonica stack. I want something that I can get into with just a few (four, most likely) faros and at most the displacement of a few cards. Mnemonica, you have to do rather a lot more than that, if I recall.

I spent about six months last year studying memorized deck routines but I really felt like the more complex stuff just isn't for me. I used to do a routine where I'd false shuffle, have the spec spread the cards, pretend to memorise them, then recall the whole deck. I'd like to be able to do that again, maybe. I want to do this suit production. And I'd like to be able to apparently shuffle the cards into new deck order. Beyond that I don't want to get TOO involved in memorized deck work. So, am actually looking for something fairly straightforward here. I think the four faros from the Fournier order will work just fine for my needs!

Though, maybe I should have mentioned that I've read Mnemonica. I just found the book somewhat overwhelming...