What's people's problem with street magic?

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What's people's problem with street magic?

Postby Danny Joseph » May 25th, '11, 15:43



I always seem to see people criticize street magic as just some kind of `amature's playfield` and almost a disgrace to magic.

I've long done public magic to strangers, public hypnosis to strangers, and have almost always had positive, crowd attracting performances, whether it be at college, to random people passing by or in pubs.

I think it's the best way to gain experience, I think some people don't like it because allot of magic is revealed this way, but then, is it better I slip up in-front of 5 people, or I slip up when I'm supposed to be getting paid, in-front of 200?.


Also Brad Christian seems to get quite a bad name too, but I don't really understand that either.

Maybe this post will open a huge can of worms, but I hope it can shine some constructive light.


Personally for me, Yes skill is needed to perform street magic, allot of acting is needed, you want to act like a normal person, maybe your style is of that of someone who is amateur ( though you may secretly know otherwise).

I have people criticize every public performance I do if I can, my girlfriend stands aside, watches and picks up where she thinks I go wrong, if I drag too much, if I flash, or talk to fast etc etc.


My public style isn't supposed to be elegant, it is supposed to look amateurish. and just when they think they know where their card is, that they've got me, I'll buy a packet of nuts from the bar, ask them to open it up and show the card is inside ( without even setting anything up with the bartender, either { although that can come in useful ;) } )

I do rather like derren brown for his acting style, he often looks `lost` in his thoughts as if he's just remembered he has to do something, this I do try and take influence on, and it works fantastic.

Any opinions?

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Postby Miniolo » May 25th, '11, 16:09

Ey I wanted to tell you i love streetmagic ofcourse there is no real audience and u dont get payed... but i do street magic and i love it because 1 it has more interaction in the group and that is more amazing then just watch a trick

also i dont know why they think street magic is less hard.. it is so much harder when u go out and dont have a name and go up to them they dont know what to expect u catch them of guard.. they will try heckling you and u will have to respond to this and adjust the routine at that very moment to get it to a good end... this is really like about street magic instead of stage where everything is scripted and no one can change the routine making it perhaps better? also every performance is different because they always react different!

for instance i did a ambitious card routine with 5 or 6 faces edd marlo s topchanges dl cardini passes bended card card to mouth etc... after the trick i always ask them if they want to keep the signed card as a souvenier at that moment i Perform a top change and hand it to them most people just look at it and go huh WHAT? thats not my card...

this other time a dude took a glance and put it in his wallet i knew he did not see it wasnt his card no more.. so i played it out and did a TRANSPOsition from his wallet to the deck ... he was amazed... this creates new ideas and makes u better in my opinion

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Postby user24 » May 25th, '11, 16:41

I think a lot of it has to do with overhyped effects being sold to ten year-olds who then think they're david blaine. Or age-old effects being marketed like they're some amazing new type of magic which completely rewrites the rules etc etc. When actually it's the same stuff that magicians have been doing for years.

Personally I think the street is a nice venue for any art form. I like to see people painting on the streets, singing, dancing, etc.

Check out some videos of parkour for example. It's just gymnastics, but done on the street. The street setting adds a certain something to it in my eyes. It's magical, when you see people walking about in their daily life exposed to something artful and out of the ordinary. They stop worrying about their next TPS report and enjoy a slightly surreal moment of wonder. It can even be beautiful.

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Postby pcwells » May 25th, '11, 16:48

I think people's problems are more to do with bandwagon-jumping.

A lot of new street magicians are seen as Criss Angel or david Blaine wannabes - just as a lot of the new breed of mentalists are seen as little Derren Brown clones.

But then there's also the fact that there's street magic and then there's Street Magic.

The stuff you see Blaine and Angel do is done for the cameras. This is not the way street magicians traditionally operate when working solely for a live audience. To see what street magic is (and has been for hundreds of years), look to the likes of Gazzo, Cellini and Chris Capehart, rather than TV's 'take' on street magic.

As for Brad Christian... he's a proficient magician - and a first-rate businessman. I think the big criticism is that he's recycling old rope at a high price for an audience that thinks that magic starts and ends with Criss Angel. Much of what he sells is available in books, which are much cheaper, older and more comprehensive than anything he's marketed. But he'd relying on the impatience of a young audience that wants everything pre-packaged, pre-chewed and easily digestible.

Of course, I might be talking a load of old tosh.

Pete

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Postby Dominic Rougier » May 25th, '11, 17:45

Jamy Ian Swiss's essay on the subject:

http://www.antinomymagic.com/swiss.htm

The man has a lot of opinions, some of them are excellent, some I think are complete nonsense... but I find he's always worth listening to, or at least taking the time to form a decent argument against what he's saying.

Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Postby Pagali Zonda » May 25th, '11, 19:43

user24 wrote:Check out some videos of parkour for example. It's just gymnastics, but done on the street


Parkour is NOT about gymnastics!! It is about fluid and efficient movement through a given terrain. Free-running seems to have developed into street gymnastics but it is actually a way to hone body and mind.

Onto the magic. I think street magic is frowned upon because it seems to be the main location for hugely gimmicked products. However a nice piece of card magic/mentalism/hypnotism done on the street has a certain something to it.

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Postby user24 » May 25th, '11, 19:55

I'd forgotten about that aspect of parkour. From what I've read, I think you're right that it has a pretty well developed philosophy surrounding it, and it's a mischaracterisation to say it's just gymnastics. As a lay-man when it comes to parkour... it... kinda just looks like gymnastics to me. But I appreciate that it's not.

Dominic Rougier wrote:Jamy Ian Swiss's essay on the subject:

http://www.antinomymagic.com/swiss.htm

The man has a lot of opinions, some of them are excellent, some I think are complete nonsense... but I find he's always worth listening to, or at least taking the time to form a decent argument against what he's saying.


It's an interesting essay... but I don't find it compelling.

In the first section the claim is made that few people make their living from street magic. Whether true or not, it seems to me unlikely that 'ability to make profit from it' is a desirable characteristic of a performance - from an audience perspective I mean - and so I don't see the significance of introducing 'making a living from it' into the discussion.

Additionally, the fact that the professional street magicians are "surrounded by cameras" is cited as though it's a necessary part of street magic. Firstly, I don't personally really see a difference between the noble art of busking with cup and balls and street magic, so in my view it's perfectly possible to perform street magic without cameras. Secondly, I'm tempted to ask "So what?" The claim seems to be that all street magicians are just in it to get on TV, for which I find some evidence, but little. And certainly nothing to damn street magic out of hand.

While considering 'audience' in section two, the author equates performing magic tricks with 'accosting' strangers and making inappropriate offers. I would like to pose a counterexample. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would absolutely *love* it if someone introduced themselves and explained politely that they're an artist and would I mind pausing for a moment while they drew a quick sketch of me. That would be a fantastic thing to see happen. You could call it street art I suppose.

I smile when I see people making chalk drawings on the street. I enjoy watching flashmobs in action. And yes, I do find some graffiti appealing, with certain caveats. It's a touch of the extraordinary brought into your everyday life. Go and watch Amelie to get a sense of the kind of feeling I'm talking about. Modern life can be depressing, boring and mundane, and an unexpected flash of colour can be very beautiful indeed. This, to me, is the over-all aim of street magic.

In section 3, the author expresses disappointment that 'street magic' is, actually, just magic. But I feel that this criticism can be applied to most other areas of magic; the presentation is all that differs much of the time. For example;
"Many of these tricks are available for purchase via an immediate download: you provide your credit card information and seconds later the instructions are yours."
But you could say exactly the same about books bought at magic shops, which I trust we don't have a problem with.

"Clearly, if you can simply download the instructions, then such tricks require a few simple materials - a piece of string, a spot of glue - that can quickly be assembled at home"
Yes, just like books on card magic only require a simple deck of cards, and Bobo's tome requires a few simple materials that you can assemble at home.. Again I don't see the point the author is trying to make.

The author does make a very good point (by proxy) about 'magic as stunts'. But again I feel that *bad* street magic, just like any other badly performed magic, can come across as a shallow stunt with no depth. But I don't feel that this is enough to negate all the possibilities which the street as a venue for magic offers. Indeed, I am of the opinion that an excellent trick performed for a someone who wasn't expecting to see a trick, will have a greater impact than the same trick performed to a seated paying audience. Not only due to the intimacy of it all, but also the surprise which such an event may offer. Note that I do not speak from experience, so may be way off here. This is just what I feel, not what years of experience has taught me. I am naive, which I fully admit.

, what seems consistent with the vast majority of these tricks is that they are short, fast, one-beat effects.


This is true, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Certainly longer routines with storylines are good, but that doesn't mean there's no room for short punchy effects too. How much story does a coin vanish need, really? Is it made more magical if the routine lasts 5 minutes instead of 2? I'm not suggesting just silently go up to someone and vanish a coin, but likewise no-one wants to sit through 20 minutes of narrative just to watch a card trick.

Clearly there's a curve at either end of which lies absurdity.

I'm cutting this reply short of a full reply to the essay because both it and this reply are bleedin' long already.

edit: Sorry, I can't stop myself.

other oddball variants of U.S. Playing Card pasteboards, which he markets to adolescents as "cool," but of course violate the entire raison d'etre for doing magic with playing cards in the first place.

this is an excellent point. The entire reason we do magic with cards is because they're more-or-less everyday items (and incidentally this is why a lot of stage magic (but not all) leaves a bad taste in my mouth. "Look, watch me do something amazing, but I have to do it in this special box" Hmmmmmm). So to introduce loads of 'cool' looking cards and then aggressively market them to impressionable newbies probably doesn't do anyone any favours. I myself was tricked into thinking I should get a posh shiny deck of cards to do magic with.

Yet again though, the same applies to paddles and change bags and colour changing knives and a whole host of things other than just fancy looking decks. So it's a valid point, but I don't see it as applicable solely to street magic.

I'm not particularly interested in discussing the particular case of a certain retailer.

The online street-magic demos are just that: a fantasy.

This is true to an extent, but I don't think street magic can only exist in this engineered form. There's clearly something appealing about the fantasy that it's selling, so I think it's a worthwhile project to try to make that fantasy a reality.

In fact, towards the end of the essay, the author does seem to get to the crux of the matter:

if standard magic is performed on the street, it suddenly becomes street magic. As Malek put it, "The Ambitious Card routine that David Blaine did was no different - it was just on the street. The Balducci levitation is still the Balducci levitation." Good magic, they seem to be saying, will always remain good magic, no matter where it's performed. And bad magic doesn't become good magic merely by doing it in an empty lot.

Which I completely agree with. There is no reason to dismiss 'street magic' just because it's done on the street. Bad magic is bad magic, and I'm sure there are plenty of rubbish tricks being sold by dealers everywhere which are geared towards indoors performances, just as there are for street performers.

I found a post from a man who does much the same thing at his local coffee shop. His wife and young child sit with him, and he begins to perform for her, as a way of attracting a larger audience. His mate "is great at becoming invisible at the right times, as a great assistant (and partner) always is," and the coffee shop clientele "are like ripe apples, just waiting to be picked by me and my ID."



But is Mr. Coffee (or was I) doing street magic, according to the definitions I've addressed? Or is he operating in a more reasonable social setting, a more viable performance setting, by, at the very least, bringing the audience to him?

Yes, I would pretty much call that street magic myself. It all hangs on the definition. If you define street magic to be "poorly executed magic performed to an unwilling audience by unskilled adolescents" then absolutely the points stand. But the street has nothing to do with that definition. If linking rings or doing costume changes looked cool to kids, they'll all be botching that instead. But that shouldn't detract from the actual art of that form of magic, when done right.

Last edited by user24 on May 25th, '11, 21:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Duplicity » May 25th, '11, 20:16

I think its more about the people it attracts, rather than the actual magic itself. Not a fan of street-hypnosis, I think it is dangerous and no one ever does anything interesting with it.

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Postby Lawrence » May 25th, '11, 22:00

Why would you perform in a street?

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Postby user24 » May 25th, '11, 22:11

Lawrence wrote:Why would you perform in a street?

Because inviting strangers into my usual venue, in front of the mirror in my bathroom, would just be weird :lol:

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Postby dat8962 » May 25th, '11, 23:22

While I agree with what PCWells has written, I also believe that the majority of street magic is performed very poorly by inexperienced magicians who know little about craft and the art of performing for an audience.

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Postby Rufio » May 25th, '11, 23:28

In fairness I have probably been guilty in the past of, when first starting out, perhaps didn't practice each trick enough for it to be polished and honed. However, it's in that process that the humdrum magi-to-be begins to elevate themselves by practicing showmanship, psychology [?]and misdirection to achieve the perfect, refined, performance piece.

Epic routines moving on from the countless versions of two-card monte, including some excellent ones, seeing how another magi performs a trick you do.

Street magic has had an injection of Dynamo, who is now very much part of the Establishment, making occasional fleeting appearances - there was one on last week about psychology and sleight of hand.

Slight tangent, but check out a magazine called Psychologies, it has a great article written by David Baddiel (has no relevance here), but just a witty article.

Good posts, interesting thread.

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Postby russpie » May 26th, '11, 08:17

In my mind street magic is where someone who makes their living by performing to big crowds in a Covent Garden style layout draws the crowds, performs shouting & surrounded then takes money in a hat.

What you're describing is close up magic stood in a street to strangers. Not the same in my book. Close up magic is close up magic regardless of the setting. If I perform mostly in hotels would it be described as hotel magic?

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Postby Lawrence » May 26th, '11, 08:25

user24 wrote:
Lawrence wrote:Why would you perform in a street?

Because inviting strangers into my usual venue, in front of the mirror in my bathroom, would just be weird :lol:

But why in the street? Would a pub / bar be a better location perhaps?

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Postby user24 » May 26th, '11, 09:11

Lawrence wrote:
user24 wrote:
Lawrence wrote:Why would you perform in a street?

Because inviting strangers into my usual venue, in front of the mirror in my bathroom, would just be weird :lol:

But why in the street? Would a pub / bar be a better location perhaps?

Yes I think you're probably right. In my 'approaching strangers' thread I made the fatal mistake of mentioning the term 'street magic' but really I did have in my mind more sitting in pub gardens etc. Obviously permission from the owner is essential in those cases.

Though I do still find the idea of impromptu performance in an outdoors setting appealing, literally bringing some magic into unexpected places.

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