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I will use a phrase which many may disagree with.

Timing is what makes a performance, a performance.

It doesn't matter how good a magician or actor you are, without the correct timing, you are mediocre.

I believe it was Henning Nelms where I read about peaks and troughs. However, thess are my personal viewpoints, plus questions.

I have a routine in mind. I have no time to work on anything, apart from inside my head, for a few months yet. So, in my head, I have worked out some timings, which include doing the same thing for a minute, plus repeating constantly, over the next two minutes. However, between this, there will then be parts which opeople will not expect, as the constant boring sameness, will lull them. I do not know if it will mean they get too bored to be bothered to watch all of it, yet I'm convinced they will. Because of timing the change, plus making those changes surprising.
While I have been thinking about this subject for a while, it happens that today, I was looking through an old routine I wrote in the Library. I am re-writing it, but looked at some replies. Mike gave a great piece of advice, which, at the time, I hadn't considered. Remember to leave the correct pauses, so people can have time to react. While changing this script, I am now able to understand what I missed back then. Timing not only means I can get the reactions, but I can also add actions to those timings, to create the performance. It doesn't make it more magical. There are no more sleights or gimmicks used. It just means the story is visual and reinforces the routine.
Written as I had it, though it was a very rough script, thought up in five minutes, much of the performance would have been missing.

So, two points.

How low, in entertainment and magic can you go, as a trough and for how long?

Do people feel that timing is of major importance in magic and is it one that gets overlooked too much?

Timing is of immense importance, and can only really be worked out in front of an audience.

Here is an example from one of my routines. I do a vanish of a ribbon using a TT. I point to my fist, then open my thumb and announce the ribbon has vanished. I smile, take a small bow, grin at a few people in the audience. I linger for about five seconds, before opening the rest of my fingers, and saying: "No, really, it's gone."

The reaction is great. But if I just vanished it and opened my hand, the reaction would be far less.

Geoffrey Durham said that when he tears and restors a newspaper, the key point is to pause before the restoration. The pause sells it. Timing can make an ordinary performance great.

Anybody who is infront of people on a regular basis learns about timing. Doesn't matter if you are selling a product, singing a song, dancing, telling a joke or doing a magic trick.

I don't think timing gets overlooked, I think it is not talked about because it is something that is learned in front of an audience, (not in your head) because when in front of an audience things happen that simply would never occur to you in your head.

I think for most people it becomes automatic, for the most part it is built naturally into a true, tried, tested routine. And because of its natural nature it is just not thought about on a really consious level, its not that it is overlooked, its just natural for the most part once one becomes adept at performing.

bmat wrote:Anybody who is infront of people on a regular basis learns about timing. Doesn't matter if you are selling a product, singing a song, dancing, telling a joke or doing a magic trick.

Couldn't agree more - close up is what I do, and the timing on a reveal (for a 2 card transpo for example) is what really sells the trick and invites the WOW moment (and loud screaming / clapping etc) ... if you leave it too long though, its becomes a case of "yeah mate, we know its the card, get on with it", but not long enough and its "huh? but didn't he just switch them?".

RE your script / routine, bare in mind that repetition with the right patter and wording can be VERY entertaining - 6 card repeat springs to mind here , or cannibal kings, the "om nom nom" moment where the card gets eaten, I leave a 2 second pause before I make the noise of the kings eating the cards and people laugh before Ive done anything.

I don't think that timing gets overlooked as such, but (from my own personal experience) its something that you can really plan - its good that you are aware you need it and that you are factoring into your routine the concept of pauses etc, but its a case of judging it on the night and kind of playing it by ear - thats how I do it anyways

All the best with the routine / ideas though, you'll have to let us know how it goes.

Dan

I couldn't agree more with the people above!

Timing is critical in most performances. It is great magicians who can hold an Audience long enough for them to really wonder but not so long as they get bored!

Louie

You should never be boring!

When you're talking about interest peaks and troughs, the troughs are (or should be) breathing spaces, moments for relaxation and reflection, never boring stretches.

You can study pacing any time you read a book, watch a movie, play a game, etc. Any audience would be exhausted by a non-stop feed of fast-moving, adrenaline-pumping action. After a burst of excitement, you need to slow down, catch your breath, relax the tension, and think about what just happened and what might happen next. Then the tension can build up again to another peak, each peak higher than the one before.

Books about writing talk about this, but I've found the best and most detailed discussions in books about game design. There's an excellent chapter on pacing in The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses by Jesse Schell. I wouldn't recommend buying it unless you're interested in game design, but your local library should be able to get hold of a copy for you to borrow.

Timing and pacing is a very important aspect of most if not all aspects of entertainment. It is important in magic in may different way some more obvious than others. It has been mentioned here about timing in respect to gaps, waiting before revealing something or moving on to the next aspect of your routine. These gaps may be necessary for the penny to drop, remember something, forget something etc....

In the opening to this thread the point was raised about timing involving repetition.

miles more magic. I have a routine in mind. I have no time to work on anything, apart from inside my head, for a few months yet. So, in my head, I have worked out some timings, which include doing the same thing for a minute, plus repeating constantly, over the next two minutes. However, between this, there will then be parts which opeople will not expect, as the constant boring sameness, will lull them. I do not know if it will mean they get too bored to be bothered to watch all of it, yet I'm convinced they will. Because of timing the change, plus making those changes surprising.

Timing in this respect is very important. You are aiming to bore their mind (lower their defenses as it were) without boring them to the point of getting fed up or switching off completely. To achieve this I would say it is not a matter of just timing i.e repeat the action for one or two minutes. You need to take into account what you are repeating how long each repetition will take and how many times they will be watching you repeat it.

For example if your action is complex and it takes you two minutes to complete the action twice you may achieve the desired effect without boring the to the point of turning off. The other side of the coin is you may have a simple action that takes ten seconds to show and you need if you completed that again and again for two minutes that would be twelve times and may be to long and or two many times of showing unless you have some relevance for being so repetitive.

A minute or two minutes is a long time when performing and you can do a lot in it, so when looking at timing and the gaps that are left it is important to look at what we do in that time.

Nic

TonyB wrote:Timing is of immense importance, and can only really be worked out in front of an audience.

Robbie wrote:You should never be boring!

Those, I think are the most imortant quotes of this thread.

Timing is about interraction with an audience, and its success or failure is measured by their reaction to it.

And as for 'peaks and troughs', that's about shifting gears. I remember hearing Paul Daniels talking about Siegfried and Roy's Vegas show, and how it consisted of A HUGE ILLUSION followed immediately by A HUGE ILLUSION, followed immediately by A Huge Illusion, which went immediately into a huge illusion,,,

Each illusion on its own would be a jaw-dropping miracle. But by the fifth or sixth immense spectacle, you're left feeling desensitised to the whole thing.

Shifting gears to smaller, more subtle effects would help preserve the impact of the big wows. But the little effects needn't be boring. They just need to set a different tone.

Pete

Totally agree with what's been said above, timing is very important, use it to build suspense and drama. Think about anything, magic, music, a film, dance, the best ones all have the same thing in common, they all build up gradually to a big finish. With correct timing, you can really build up your audience's anticipation and that's when you get your big reactions.