talkmagic.co.uk

I'm not a pro, but I have an idea of what professionalism means.

Whether or not you charge more for weddings simply because they are weddings and so there's more money floating around, if you've given someone a quote without establishing the nature of the gig, then do the gig, just like you would do any other wedding reception gig you get.

I think believing you're the victim of your client, and seeking to somehow turn the situation to your advantage in some way would not be the path of a professional magician.

Agecroft wrote:Seems like he doesn't want to be ripped off but part of the reason he is unhappy is because he couldn't rip her off as he didn't know it was a wedding reception

Ha ha touché. True, I always try to get as much info out of them as possible before giving a quote & don't really hike it up for weddings, if anything i'd be more inclined to drop it a bit for them. But trying to make the most out of a bad situation it wouldn't hurt to ask her if she'd be ok with you taking a camera person.

I think that's what I was aiming for really, as in if you're going to take the crew along you should at least ask her first.

He is obviously on some level happy with the fee he is getting other wise it's simple to turn down a gig.

Milk it for what it's worth and put it down to experience I say! I once got negotiated down pretty hard on a gig, settled on a fee I was still happy with, gave the gig away as I had something else going on (with client permission) they turned up and it was only for a well known TV actress, crafty I say and good on her!

Thanks to everyone who has offered their thoughts and advice!

For the record, I have never ripped anyone off or simply hiked my price up because it's a wedding! I would actually say I am one of the more modest working pros in terms of the kind of fees I quote, which is why I resent being offered free drink in exchange for reducing my fee.

From my experience of performing at weddings you're invariably there longer than the booked duration (when was the last time you went to a wedding and everything ran like clockwork?!) and for this reason I tend to add on a little bit more than my normal fee... not much, but it makes all the standing around during the ceremony and speeches worthwhile.

I will do this gig for the agreed price and, as suggested, hand out as many business cards as I can.

I will certainly be more careful in future as well!

In reply to the questions about why prices increase for weddings, for me at least there is a simple answer. If I am booked to do a party at eight, it goes on at eight. If I am booked to do a wedding at eight, I might go on at nine thirty. The extra fee (not that much extra, in fairness) covers the fact that I will be at the venue longer. It is not because I am jacking it up to rip them off. I presume others think the same way.

My point exactly Tony! I did 3 weddings last week and was there longer than my booked duration on all 3 occasions... and never even got offered any free bubbly! Pah.

You made your bed now go lie down in it. Do the show. Make it the best show you have ever done (as you always should). Make them feel a little guilty for trying to pull one over on you by presenting a spectacular that they have never seen before and they will feel bad for 'cheating' you, I'm not sure if it is cheating or not, but they should have been forthcoming.

As stated you charge a little more for time because with events like weddings you just never know. You charge a little more perhaps because you've tailor made an act for a wedding that is a little more costly, more giveaways whatever. There are legit reasons for charging more for certain functions.

In the end you are the professional and you have to act accordingly, making up excuses, cutting your time and all the rest just puts you in a bad light.

Next time somebody says reception you will ask: "what kind of reception? Is this a wedding, a birthday, anniversary, funeral...whatever. Also get a written contract that way you have an out if you need it.

Here's something that might help prevent this from happening in the future.

Write down a set of questions you want to ask the person on the other line about the venue. General things like "What type of a venue is it?" "How big? How small?" etc etc. Things like that, now put the print out on the fridge or by the phone/save it on your computer.

Also put note on the paper saying something "Don't accept gig if person acts sketchy on the phone or tries to avoid the questions."

Ok, I thought this was an interesting topic, but never posted in it, and I've just searched to find it, rather than starting a new topic.

My point is about close up magic.
How many of you have different price structures for different events?
Corporate Event vs. Wedding vs. High School Prom vs. Private Party

I understand what Tony has said, but is there really a difference between what you are doing?
If you charge someone more just because it's a company, but you do the same thing - isn't that dishonest?
Or is that the best thing to do, so you get more money?

I also mentioned on a previous post on another thread, that I have a lower price for Restaurants, because they will often book a run - I don't think that's hypocritical, because that's a reduced price, not an increased price.

I'm not asking about what to charge, I can work that out based on what I need to earn to survive / what the show actually costs to perform. I'm asking why when someone mentions, Corporate or Wedding does the price for the show (which is exactly the same) jump up, or is it not the same show.
Thanks.
Ed.

How did the first function know what you charged ?

When I was self-employed (not magic) some years ago I had a fixed price 'finders fee' that I paid to companies who recommended clients that led to some work for me. The recommenders did not know the details of any contractual prices or rates that I had with the client.

Jing wrote:Ok, I thought this was an interesting topic, but never posted in it, and I've just searched to find it, rather than starting a new topic.

My point is about close up magic.
How many of you have different price structures for different events?
Corporate Event vs. Wedding vs. High School Prom vs. Private Party

I understand what Tony has said, but is there really a difference between what you are doing?
If you charge someone more just because it's a company, but you do the same thing - isn't that dishonest?
Or is that the best thing to do, so you get more money?

I also mentioned on a previous post on another thread, that I have a lower price for Restaurants, because they will often book a run - I don't think that's hypocritical, because that's a reduced price, not an increased price.

I'm not asking about what to charge, I can work that out based on what I need to earn to survive / what the show actually costs to perform. I'm asking why when someone mentions, Corporate or Wedding does the price for the show (which is exactly the same) jump up, or is it not the same show.
Thanks.
Ed.

Hi Ed,

My prices are the same no matter what the event, My prices depend on how long they want/need me to perform for the only price change is location. If im entertaining 10 people at a house party or 70 guests at a wedding if im there an hour I charge them for an hour. my prices are based on about 30-40 mile radius of my house any further and I do add on travel, not a great deal mind you but at £6.50 per gallon you can easily put £30 /£35 of fuel plus wear and tear.Also, I must add is that I do tell them the price for the gig plus travel costs, I dont just up my price by £30.

Deano

MagicBill wrote:My point exactly Tony! I did 3 weddings last week and was there longer than my booked duration on all 3 occasions... and never even got offered any free bubbly! Pah.

Well done mate that's a lot of weddings in a week. Thumbs up.

I think that a person should price them self within a particular market and stay close to that (sure some variation can occur). If you position yourself as a specialist as a wedding magician, then your pricing will reflect that and your expertise will attract more. If you position yourself as a private party magician, then your marketing and pricing will reflect that.

I see valid reasons for pricing differences including high-demand dates/times or for different packages that you may offer. Offering different service packages could be a may to handle the wedding vs. home party pricing issue.

For now, you should just proceed with your quote. Otherwise, it really won't create a good impression.

I think once you committed yourself and settled on a price quote, you have to go there and do your work as professionally as possible. There's no other proffessional way out of it.

I would suggest, however, that next time you prepare a page with questions that would make clear what sort of a reception this is, possibly with small letters that say something to the effect of "help me help you in making this the best event possible!"

Forgive me forum, it has been 2 years since my last post. Found myself lurking around again and have been following this discussion with interest.

In respect to pricing structures I wanted to add a few points of my own. Take them as you wish.

Pricing is a complex area and one that marketeers battle with everyday. To paraphrase a quote whose origin I can't recall, "there are companies whose purpose it is to raise prices and those whose purpose is to lower them". It's really important to know which business you're in or you're in danger of not being in any business at all.

Magic and entertainment are service industries, almost exclusively delivered by freelance individuals. Each individual has a limited number of days in which they can work; around 200 if you are full-time (note I didn't say professional). This means that your business is incapable of any scale once you max out your days. The fact is your not Walmart. You're in the business of maximising the value of the limited days you have available to you.

There are two main pricing models that you can use. The first is cost plus and sounds similar to what has been suggested. In essence you take all your costs and then add on a percentage (say 20%) above this to make up the price. Good model for scaleable businesses as they have the volume to allow them to manage the costs and therefore make this profitable. Not so good, I would suggest, for magicians. That isn't to say you can't make a living at it. You can. But you can do better and offer a better service as a result.

If you're a performer then I would suggest that you look at a value based pricing model as it is a fairer model for all parties concerned, including the client. Value based pricing looks at the value being delivered to the client and prices in relation to this and doesn't take into account the costs. This is far from being dishonest and is actually a fairer deal for all concerned.

From my own experience, magicians and performers have somewhat poor business skills and tend to do neither. Magicians often charge more for weddings (I've heard it being flippantly referred to as wedding tax) but I'm fairly certain that many couldn't articulate why. The reality is that clients value the same service at different levels based on the context in which it is being used. Although scarcity of resource is a factor, it is only one of many.

To continue with the example of a wedding, these are important one time only events. I do of course mean the wedding event not necessarily the marriage. It is really important to those who are participating and they are keen to make sure the day is as perfect as they can make it. This is why they are willing to pay more. It is not stupidity on the part of the client, but a desire to get the very best service from all concerned. If you are a wedding magician then you have a special responsibility to that client on that day and need to understand that is why you are being paid at a higher rate. It is also why they will be not be best pleased if you fail to deliver. From the clients perspective the stakes are much, much higher and again this is why they are willing to pay more.

There are many who will treat weddings like any other gig, do very well and have never had a complaint. That's fine, but I would argue that you're probably leaving money on the table and almost certainly not taking full advantage of the marketing possibilities available. For me, understanding the relationship with the client, understanding their expectations and delivering a service with their interests in mind is the definition of professionalism no matter what profession you happen to be in.

Before anyone jumps on their high horse: when speaking disparagingly of magicians this is from my own experience of my fellow magi and doesn't necessarily mean you. Apologies for the length of this post, I was on a roll. Congratulations for making it to the end.