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Hi I've always wondered this as haven't pre-ordered a magic effect before, but do have a list of things I am considering.

What I want to know is what exactly are the benefits with pre-ordering? For example, with Alarmed by Noel Qualter, Alakazam offered 10 extra free gimmicks. Other pre-orders have in the past included things like a bonus DVD not otherwise included.

However, effects in the pipeline like FriendBook and Sign Off (both released via Alakazam) don't show any benefits in pre-ordering. Whilst the prudent, sceptical part of me suggests waiting for informed reviews, there is a desire to blow my load (a la The Apprentice) for this shiny neon light of buying as a pre-order. Are there hidden benefits like you get a secret voucher or a freebie that is otherwise the incentive here OR, as in FriendBook and Sign Off, is there a discount? Otherwise I don't see the benefit in pre-ordering, especially where no discount incentive or extra things or offered.

Is anyone who has pre-ordered generally in the past able to shed some light on this?

I've never pre-ordered but one benefit from it (with or witout bonus material) is peace of mind that you will get it first.An aadvantage if the item in high demand.Like Chop for instance which was in such high demand that it was sold out everywhere.I'd never preorder witout some sort of reaasuring view.That's just me

Pre-ordering has a number of benefits. You might get a freebie. You might get a reduced price. You might get in before an effect sells out (extra important for a limited edition item). You might simply get the trick earlier than those who waited for the release date.

The downsides are that the product might be awful and that you have parted with your cash for nothing (effectively). There are a few things I pre-ordered and they got delayed (or indeed, in some cases, never saw the light of day). Bulletproof was a year late, although well worth the wait, and I did get a discount for ordering early.

EDIT: There was one other thing. Some of the items I pre-ordered, but got kept waiting for, were things I bought while I was purchasing other things. It seemed like a good idea to make use of multi-buy deals, or just the fact that it was easier to order something else while buying a currently available item.

That's a fair point, although I'm sure there is a lot of magic propaganda that we all buy into (I'm equally as into that as the next person), such as this fear of loss, that we will have to await a next batch of the line to be made, or that we are paying for the secret, which is why we feel justified in paying X amount for very cheaply made props. I've no qualms with paying over the odds and supporting magic creators, but sometimes I do question whether the price we pay is to deter wannabies or really to increase profit margins.

Take Spike Sharpie Edition for example. Yeah, it's an excellent effect, although you're essentially paying up to £125 for a metal spike and some wooden blocks.

Essentially there is a loose correlation between prices of effects and the greater reaction, in that a lot of middle price "good value", almost pocket money effects, may well end up in the magic drawer.

I suppose that's why there's a booming market in Far East replicas, which is a strange concept, as it just shows that China will tap into every area, much to the detriment of say, specialist niche manufacturers; even countries who export their specific tourist paraphernalia are losing trade from China. In that sense they are very much like Tesco pushing the local off-licence out of business. Not that I have a thing against China or Tesco, I quite like their convenience.

As I've gotten more into magic the excitement of discovering the secret to an effect seems less magical, but that's probably natural, in the same way you probably underestimate a lot of magic effects' potential purely because you as a magician are not impressed with it. Yes, it's best to look at things from the audiences' point of view, but for me a lot of magic effects have to be about both exciting to you as well as the person watching, and personally the latest additions to my magic repertoire will only make the grade if I see potential for reactions, as well as adoring the method / mechanics / practicality, etc. Those effects in between probably have a limited shelf life as we magicians move onto our next toy.

In context, pre-order emails pop up in our sights like rabbits in headlights, and whatever compulsive maniac in us drives us on. Having said all this, the magic bug will always continue, with no end in sight!

EDIT: this was in relation to Flood's post, but yes, I have heard stories about people waiting for ages. If there is a discount though, I do think it should say this clearly. Like: Pre-order price = x, RRP = Y, as if anything that could lure more folk in. Tempted just to pre-order some things to see if anything out the ordinary happens!

What would happen if you pre-ordered two different items?!

The benefits might differ between products, but the seller should makes them clear up front. I would not hope for a freebie if it's not offered. That way disappointment lies.

When I released The Third Man I took pre-orders. The benefit to the customers was assured access to a (100-set) limited effect/routine. They were guaranteed at least a year of exclusivity.

When I released the MK-MOD ESP test cards I took pre-orders on a bundle that included ESPsycrets and the optional Test Card book. There was a 30 per cent discount on the whole package.

The important thing is not to be kept waiting. I've heard that some people pre-order and then have to wait months or even over a year. To me that sounds exploitative and I'd ask for a refund.

Ted.

There is no doubt really that there is propaganda in the magic community.You only need to look as far as Ellusionist and Penguin to see that.Saying that I do love Penguin Magic for its quick shipping and decent prices.But those two sites in paticular hype things up to no ends.

I must say that I hate when effects are released and they put huge prices on it and use excuse like 'Keeps youtube kids away'-'It will get you repeat bookings'-'reputation maker' etc etc the list goes on...This in my oppinion is just an excuse to get the buck.What's worse is when a reviewer for example says ''The price should be doubled'' etc.

Now I don't mind spending a bit of cash for decent effects but some of the prices of effects are a bloody joke for what you get.200-300 quid for a magic trick???James bond wouldn't pay that for any of his bloody devices.If your going to pay that much for one trick then it ought to be an ingenious method that does everything for you leaving only presentation to be worried about.It also better get a damn good reaction and maybe even a back rub for that money.

This brings me to my next point.This is kind of my philosophy about money and paying for things.Something's worth is determined by how much someone is willing to pay.This goes for everything.Overpriced clothing is a good example especially from shops like topman and H&M.You can get T-shirts of the same qualty for a fraction of a price in Penneys but yet people are willing to pay 50 quid for a T-shirt.Is it worth it.To me HELL NO but to the person buying it is.So in retrospect the t-shirt is worth that money.

Magicians pay a rediculous amount of money for their tricks(including me).The difference for us is that we don't know what we're going to receive prior to buying which makes it a risky investment.I'll be honets to say that I look up youtube exposure vids to see methods of tricks I'm thinking of buying to see it the method fits my criteria.If it does I buy.If it doesn't I don't buy.If I don't do this then I buy at risk of wasting my hard earned money.

I'll probably get slated for this but I wish there was a place online for magicians to see methods to products to see if it fits them.Much like Mathieu Bich's Nomad Pad video.Obviously that video being on youtube is dodgy but I don't think non magicians would ever cross by it.Especially if it wasn't on Youtube.

Flood wrote:Magicians pay a rediculous amount of money for their tricks(including me).The difference for us is that we don't know what we're going to receive prior to buying which makes it a risky investment.

I agree that there is some very unhelpful advertising copy around. Unfortunately this has always been the case, since the days of printed catalogues. At least these days we can discuss new effects online and even read/write reviews. These don't have to expose, but we can address questions that the adverts don't.

T.

Ted wrote:

Flood wrote:Magicians pay a rediculous amount of money for their tricks(including me).The difference for us is that we don't know what we're going to receive prior to buying which makes it a risky investment.

I agree that there is some very unhelpful advertising copy around. Unfortunately this has always been the case, since the days of printed catalogues. At least these days we can discuss new effects online and even read/write reviews. These don't have to expose, but we can address questions that the adverts don't.

T.

Amen to that.If it wasn't for forum reviews I would be a far less off and very p!$$£d off!

Pre-ordering is a double-edged sword imho and I've rarely felt the need to do it.

Discounts and freebies aside (which may be an excellent reason to pre-order), on the one hand you get guaranteed delivery on release knowing you've got your hands on something that might sell out very very quickly. This is the reason I pre-ordered Beyond ESP 3 - you only had to look around here and other forums to see the demand for replacement decks for BESP/2, not to mention the demand from new customers.

The flipside to that is the actual release, most people will be fully aware of the problems surrounding Bulletproof, released over a year late. That was a couple of hundred quid of each magician's money essentially tied up without a product to show for it and was, imho, a pretty poor showing.

Vanderbelt wrote:Pre-ordering is a double-edged sword imho and I've rarely felt the need to do it.

Discounts and freebies aside (which may be an excellent reason to pre-order), on the one hand you get guaranteed delivery on release knowing you've got your hands on something that might sell out very very quickly. This is the reason I pre-ordered Beyond ESP 3 - you only had to look around here and other forums to see the demand for replacement decks for BESP/2, not to mention the demand from new customers.

The flipside to that is the actual release, most people will be fully aware of the problems surrounding Bulletproof, released over a year late. That was a couple of hundred quid of each magician's money essentially tied up without a product to show for it and was, imho, a pretty poor showing.

Indeed - my subconscious was thinking of Bulletproof. There are other people who seem to do this on purpose, too. I get the feeling that they cash in to make the capital to actually produce the goods! If it takes a long time to accrue enough dough then those who ordered early are being made fools of, IMHO.

The benefit is usually that you'll be one of the first to stick it on magicweek in the for sale section & get a better price before the place is flooded with 2nd hands.

I always wait for independant reviews from experienced people.

Ted wrote:There are other people who seem to do this on purpose, too. I get the feeling that they cash in to make the capital to actually produce the goods! If it takes a long time to accrue enough dough then those who ordered early are being made fools of, IMHO.

I think I know who you mean (or one of them, anyway).

Never mind Bulletproof, I am still waiting for The Secret Lexicon, which I ordered on the strength of The Shakespeare Experiment.

Part-Timer wrote:I am still waiting for The Secret Lexicon

Wow, that was announced over two years ago and it's still "coming soon!"

When my MK-MOD cards looked like they were going to be a couple of weeks late (because the printing company was upgrading its printers) I offered refunds to those who pre-ordered. What I fool I was

No, just a very decent chap, Ted. I had no qualms about a pre-order from you.

I'm fully confident (kind of) that The Secret Lexicon will appear one day. Like the Rapture.

There was a stage when I realised I had paid for both that and Bulletproof and they were well past their "due date". I got a bit nervous.