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cynebearn wrote:well that's simple. Just say that someone suggested a background in coin and card magic lended a good hand if you wanted to master the art of mentalism.

Well if you like, you take your psycho-NLP-babble book and I'll take some index cards, billets, add in a couple of basic card and coin sleights and we'll see who can put on the better mental performance

Lady of Mystery wrote:

cynebearn wrote:well that's simple. Just say that someone suggested a background in coin and card magic lended a good hand if you wanted to master the art of mentalism.

Well if you like, you take your psycho-NLP-babble book and I'll take some index cards, billets, add in a couple of basic card and coin sleights and we'll see who can put on the better mental performance

Could you explain what card and coin slights are useful for trying to do mentalism? (assuming one doesn't use the cards or coins in the performance). I don't really get what you mean.

Thanks.

screwystewie wrote:

Lady of Mystery wrote:

cynebearn wrote:well that's simple. Just say that someone suggested a background in coin and card magic lended a good hand if you wanted to master the art of mentalism.

Well if you like, you take your psycho-NLP-babble book and I'll take some index cards, billets, add in a couple of basic card and coin sleights and we'll see who can put on the better mental performance

Could you explain what card and coin slights are useful for trying to do mentalism? (assuming one doesn't use the cards or coins in the performance). I don't really get what you mean.

I think you'd need to read a few books on mentalism and it would become very clear very quickly as to why basic magic skills such as those involving cards and coins would help you to give an effective mentalism performance. I wish I could give you a clearer answer but I don't want to give too much away.

T.

Just have a little think about it. Have a think about all those things that mentalist love to use and then think about how card and coin work could be applied to them.

I often wonder why so many mental types ignor the basics and instead sit there scratching their heads, looking for a complicated method when the answer's in the first few pages of Bobo.

13 Steps is excellent and will go over most the basic stuff. The book version covers more thatn the DVD volumes but I often found that visuals help alot more to show you how its done correctly. Max Maven's multiplicity is a good one for the one ahead or magician's choice alot of great material. Any of the Maven or Ostyerlind material or even banachek.

From there that opens you up to alot of stuff which your mind is the limit.

I'm absolutely staggered that nobody's mentioned the "Becoming A Mentalist" sticky thread at the top of this very Support & Tips section.

Apart from that, I'll add my vote to starting off with Fulves' Self-Working Mental Magic and the evergreen Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. There's plenty in there to get you off to a flying start, and Wilson's book also covers basic card and coin moves.

And yes, the ability to do basic card and coin work is really, really useful for mentalism. There are a lot of good effects in mentalism books I own that I can't do (yet) because I haven't paid enough attention to cards and coins.

If you're used to doing straight magic, you'll probably find mentalism "secrets" rather disappointing. You have to remember that it's all in the presentation, and a good proportion of very professional effects are made up of a huge amount of showmanship wrapped around a very tiny secret.

Although I think that the whole book might be a little bit much for starting off, I do think there is a nice little bit in psychological subtleties by banachek.

I'm not sure what part of the book it is in of the top of my head, but I know it's somewhere in the first third, but there's a great little section that gives you a list of the most common thought of numbers, pictures, colours, ect. If you give some of those a try that'll be a good starting point I think. I especialy like the part where it explains a way that you could get someone to pick 1 of 5 cards from the entire deck, almost everytime and with the illution of giving them the choice of the whole deck. I have used that before and know of others who have too.

It really depends what you mean by mindreading tricks. If you expect to be like Derren Brown or something by buying 13 Steps to Mentalism or whatever, you might be disappointed (as I found out). A lot of this stuff in the book is useful for stage magic and requires props and stuff, but it won't teach you the close-up, direct mindreading that someone like Derren Brown performs. Having said that, mentalism is about giving the impression that you have the ability to read minds; you are not genuinely reading minds (generally speaking). Sleights found in card and coin magic can be used to achieve this effect. Have a look at Craig Browning's introduction on this website, it's a good place to start.

cc100 wrote: it won't teach you the close-up, direct mindreading that someone like Derren Brown performs.

I have to disagree on this point!

Ted wrote:
I have to disagree on this point!

I'm with Ted! 13 Steps holds the secret to all!

When I first read 13 Steps there were a number of aha! moments (that is to say when I mentally said aha! rather than time spent with a Swedish 80's pop band ) when I recognised the method behind a routine I had seen Derren perform. That is the genius with the Andy Nyman/Derren Brown stuff, old methods re-presented and combined into a new routine.

Not to mention that 13 Steps is hilarious. Corinda has left me laughing out loud quite a few times as I've made my way through it. It certainly isn't the dry read I expected it to be.

cc100 wrote:It really depends what you mean by mindreading tricks. If you expect to be like Derren Brown or something by buying 13 Steps to Mentalism or whatever, you might be disappointed (as I found out). A lot of this stuff in the book is useful for stage magic and requires props and stuff, but it won't teach you the close-up, direct mindreading that someone like Derren Brown performs. Having said that, mentalism is about giving the impression that you have the ability to read minds; you are not genuinely reading minds (generally speaking). Sleights found in card and coin magic can be used to achieve this effect. Have a look at Craig Browning's introduction on this website, it's a good place to start.

I think everything that needs to be said has been said ... and I couldn't agree more, I do a few mentalism tricks in my routine - stage and close up.
Of these tricks I often use the same (few) moves and sleights, but with anything involving "mind reading" (as a general term here, sorry if thats a bit vague with regards to what tricks I do) is MUCH MUCH more about how you present yourself and the idea that you are "tapping into" some unknown force or energy to get your answers, not just doing some fancy card manipulation to get the card to the 16th position (random example, anyone guess who's book I'm currently reading? ) etc

The way I see it, same with a lot of my tricks (basically, how to get a trick which suits my style and my ideals) is ... If someone told me that they could read my mind, what would I expect them to do? If I saw them doing fancy shuffles, using all these weird props such as a "magical wallet" etc, would I be convinced? or would I feel that they are using props in a clever way or have some magical device to read my mind (by that, I mean is someone stood behind them telling them what name/place I just wrote) ... Its totally about acting and presentation, even a simple trick / method (as are explained in 13 steps or MANY of Bob Cassidy's books) can be played out into fantastic routines, literally limited by your own imagination.

Some older TV shows of Derren Brown's (all on 4od now) are a testament to this, you should give them a watch - see how he manages the crowd, see how he strips everything away from the trick - its very one-on-one, very personal, not like a card trick, which is for everyone, all very bouncy and happy - the mood for mind reading is (often) quite dark, and creepy

Good luck with it all though, hows it all coming along since the first post?

Dan

Not too surprising, there are two FREE resources which may help when it comes to developing the skills you are speaking of and resources to learn more.

An Introduction to Mentalist can be found at http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/mentalism-introduction-resource-list/15574606

With an Introduction to Cold Reading (a companion text) found here http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/learning-to-cold-read/14358013

Both books have seen some very strong kudos throughout much of the industry and on other forums, including the Magic Cafe.