talkmagic.co.uk

Hi Guys,

I was wondering who first came up with the idea of the pen not working while you were writing down a piece of information, was it Al Koran? Thank you.

Jermay uses it here:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1630

I only know it from Andy Nyman... could run back further though

grant_m23 wrote:I only know it from Andy Nyman... could run back further though

Ah yes, thank you.

If you referring to the "cap subtlety" (to cover d***** w******), then that is Andy's, as far as I am aware.

As for the alternative, it's definitely older than Al Koran - although I wouldn't want to guess at where it was first mentioned.

I think it is Andy Nyman's, although Pablo Amira's written up some good ideas with it too.

this idea is as old as the hills.It comes from pencils that wont write...

daleshrimpton wrote:this idea is as old as the hills.It comes from pencils that wont write...

I think, Mr S, you'll finder it's older even than that. I've heard of cave-magi who went to work on stone tablets with blunt chisels doing the same effect.

daleshrimpton wrote:this idea is as old as the hills.It comes from pencils that wont write...

I remember reading back in the 70's about coating pencil tips with plastic or wax and "melting" the tip of an ink pen so it wouldn't roll and thus, write; so I'm pretty certain we're talking about something that goes back to at least the pre-war years (1930's if not earlier).

Your comment on the pencils, Dale, reminded me of using the harder pencil lead for your participants when carbon was being used to gain an impression; the harder lead forced them to press down more when they wrote, insuring a good impression.

Oh I thought we were talking about Nyman's cap subtlety, if its the old trick of drying out a pen then yup, that one is donkeys' years old

I think the OP was referring to Nyman's subtlety.

Lady of Mystery wrote:Oh I thought we were talking about Nyman's cap subtlety, if its the old trick of drying out a pen then yup, that one is donkeys' years old

But I don't think its a cap subtlety that he means. I'll PM you, I may be wrong.

Yes. He's talking about a method for double-writing. Not "not really writing". I believe Jermay credits Nyman for it in a video of his. Can't remember which.

If it's what I think it is, it's used in Nyman's "Deep Red Prediction". Which can be found on his Get Nyman DVD or Short, Punchy, and Mental book.

Robbie wrote:If it's what I think it is, it's used in Nyman's "Deep Red Prediction". Which can be found on his Get Nyman DVD or Short, Punchy, and Mental book.

That's the one, it's also discussed in his International Magic Lecture which is better value for money than Get Nyman in my opinion, he also discussed a little more about the psychology of this kind of subtlety/misdirect on the IML.

For what it's worth, Lady of Mystery makes a very valid point about this subtlety in her Mind Fluff book - as well as a rather brilliant DW idea of her own - well worth purchasing!

To answer the OP's original question though - that particular subtlety in the video you posted, yes that's Nyman's, Luke has credited Nyman on that in a number of his releases - I presume he does so on that one too, I've not seen it so wouldn't know for sure.