talkmagic.co.uk

by **Mancunian Lee** » Jul 26th, '11, 08:22

I guess this is early mentalism? Im looking for a good book on the history really, early charlatans, where it all started and became commercial.

Not looking for how toos or tutorial material just a general history. I will at some point be buying 13 steps to mentalism so im sure ill find all that in there but want to fill some gaps.

by **magicofthemind** » Jul 26th, '11, 10:10

It depends on what you mean by "charlatan". Mental effects probably started with Spiritualism, and there are plenty of books on its history. My favourite one is "The Sixth Sense" by Rosalind Heywood, which is a detailed look at the history of psychical research. For something less technical try "The Table Rappers" by Ronald Pearsall which puts more emphasis on the fake physical mediums.

Barry

by **Mancunian Lee** » Jul 26th, '11, 11:28

Thanks Barry, my fault sorry! The Table Rappers sounds like the sort of thing im after.

by **Grimshaw** » Jul 26th, '11, 12:22

I thoroughly recommend 'The First Psychic' by Peter Lamont.

And I know Voodini will second that, since he recommended it to me.

by **daleshrimpton** » Jul 26th, '11, 12:36

Houdini's magician among the spirits is a good read. Stienmyers book on Charles forte, is hard going but facinating.

mentalism started off way before spiritualism. It must of been in common practice in aincient greece, and egypt, as they had sooth sayers, auguries, ect.
indeed, these guys have a strong link to us, as they carried a wand as a symbol of their powers. I am guessing that 99% of whet they did, was garnered from hot, and cold readings, and with good reason. They were often paid very well by the town to carry out their duties.

by **Mancunian Lee** » Jul 26th, '11, 13:13

Thanks for the replies, ill look into all suggestions and let you know how I get on.

Charles Forte is a name I havent heard in years, is Fortean Times still going? I gave up on that one when it became about movie tie ins and not Charles Forte type stuff!!

by **Heckler** » Jul 26th, '11, 13:27

Fortean Times is very much still going strong and I can heartily recommend it. Probably one of the few magazines in the unexplained genre which remains fantastic reading.

*Pedantic note*
It's Charles Fort

by **Mandrake** » Jul 26th, '11, 13:57

Heckler wrote:*Pedantic note*
It's Charles Fort

Quite true - it's the Fort that counts. (OK, I know... coat, hat, door...)

by **jim ferguson** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:18

daleshrimpton wrote:mentalism started off way before spiritualism. It must of been in common practice in aincient greece, and egypt, as they had sooth sayers, auguries, ect.
indeed, these guys have a strong link to us, as they carried a wand as a symbol of their powers. I am guessing that 99% of whet they did, was garnered from hot, and cold readings, and with good reason. They were often paid very well by the town to carry out their duties.

Would what these soothsayers and fortune tellers did be classed as Mentalism ? The term 'Mentalism' would suggest some sort of trick to what they were doing. Id have thought, espesially with the time periods, that in the main these guys really believed in the divination they were doing. It would be kinda hard to say for certain either way though. Although the immence pressure these guys would have been under may have meant that some did eventially resort to trickery. They usually worked for the royalty or rulers of the day and while they were paid and fed well, there was always the chance of being put to death if important predictions were wrong.The wand is a very interesting subject and can be found in many cultures stretching way back to antiquity. The sheperds staff was a sign of authority in Egypt, medieval physicians carried the wands of their priestly predecessors, Moses used a magic wand (staff) to part the Red (reed) Sea. Magicians and sorcerors used the wand for protection and transformation, and as a means to focus energy or power. Medieval magicians often fixed magnetized metal caps to the end and tip of the wand with the object of projecting a powerful magnetic force - it is this type and look of wand that the conjurors adopted. The Grimoires give instructions for several different wands for different purposes, from what wood to use to exactly when and how it should be made.
The idea of the wand still survives today, and not just with us magicians - a childs fairy wand (originally meant to focus and harness the rays of the sun, represented by the star at its tip), the conductors baton, the Seargent Majors stick and many other examples i cant think of

jim

by **daleshrimpton** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:43

well, I.M.H.O we think of mentalism, and reading being a kindred art today. This is in part due to there being two destinct factors performing the arts.. Open, & shut eyes.

the shut eyes, truly believe that they get some kind of devine message, where as the open eyed, kind of know what they are doing.

It would be inconcievable to imagine that even way back in those mysterious times, some sooth sayers and their kin didnt do a bit of hocus pokus to get things going.. Exactly the same way that many , many people do today.

by **magicofthemind** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:44

daleshrimpton wrote:Houdini's magician among the spirits is a good read.

Yes it is, and it's available as a a cheap download from lybrary.com. I reviewed it in detail in my thesis "Magic and the Paranormal", which you can find in the members' areas of the Psycrets and Magic Circle websites. The thesis, which was written a few years ago, includes other book reviews and a detailed bibliography.

Barry

by **daleshrimpton** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:47

I sold my first edition a couple of years ago to a collector based in france......... and now, Im thinking of getting a cheap copy, because i seem to work in that field... Typical eh?

by **Heckler** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:50

And the wand is of course a phallic symbol, with its female counterpart the chalice or cup in magic(k).

by **jim ferguson** » Jul 26th, '11, 16:53

Heckler wrote:And the wand is of course a phallic symbol, with its female counterpart the chalice or cup in magic(k).

talkmagic.co.uk

Looking for a book on the history of charlatanism

Looking for a book on the history of charlatanism

Who is online