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anyone any toughts on what (if anything) can be produced instead of a dove that has the same visual appeal?
You get the idea, same production styles but with a different thing appearing...
I do hope this makes sense

Not really an area I'm familiar with, but butterflys perhaps? If that's workable.

Parakeets maybe. I know I've seen them used before. I have vague memories of someone discussing pigeons as they supposedly don't mind being squashed a bit. Google brought up this series

http://www.davewomach.com/magicalbirds.htm

I was thinking of something other than A living creature.

Are we talking just from a dove pan or from anywhere? As if it's from anywhere the skies the limit. Silks I suppose would be the obvious choice. Can be nice and bright, visual and graceful.

Money? That's visually appealing to pretty much everyone, but if you do master producing money from nothing you'll have to fill me in on your method for that one.

Clay pigeons? Sorry, I'll get my coat

How about origami paper cranes?

I would also say that the produced item should heavily depend on your presentation. I see doves production as something that breaches the border between life and inanimate matter. In essence, you turn a white handkerchief into a living being. This could be a very dramatic moment. You could also make it happen with insects (especially for close-up), a yellow chick, or perhaps a raw steak.

Fountain of silks is usually the alternative, of course many produce the fountain and then produce a parrot from the silks.

Almost anything produced well has a good reaction.

Animals were used because in the old days, and we are talking BC (no not British Columbia) because magicians were trying to keep their power by 'producing' life. Very godlike and very effective when trying to control the masses.

I have thought around the possibilities of using these Leonardo Da Vinci flying machines which are made commercially by a French Company for about £20 each (although in theory you can make your own as the plans are in the public domain).



However you would have to work on (a) working out how to fold them up like a real dove can be folded up into a dove jacket; and (b) how to stop its wings chattering while it is hidden - possibly by using a clip or peg.

Hope this helps.

thank you V E - this is along the lines I was wondering.
Rather than dove pan methods of appearing, I was watching a classic performance of a dove act (Lance Burton) and was wondering what could be produced other than a dove but with the same wow factor...

Bugs would be great if you were a geek/gross-out magician. Something like Madagascan Hissing Cockroaches are incredibly easy to look after, and very docile, but would totally freak out someone who wasn't a major "bug person". I can't really think of any other pet invertebrates that would work, though, as the rest would be either too fragile or too dangerous to use. Maybe an African Millipede, I suppose.

Finding something other than a living creature that is going to have the same impact, though, is going to be hard. As other people have mentioned, you're basically "playing God", by turning nothingness into life. That's a tough act to follow.

I've only just started learning magic, so I don't pretend to know the trick or real secrets of what you're talking about, here, but I have worked as a comedian and musician for the past ten years or so. Therefore, I offer my advice as one of presentation and showmanship, rather than technical insight.