talkmagic.co.uk

To add to the comments about the sven deck:

You can get some very deceptive magic by subtly applying the gaff. Luchen, a very successful Chinese magician, does some really slick stuff with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubxCFt04jE

I can't understand a word he's saying, but his skill is undeniable. The structure and design of the trick is very well made, and the conclusion baffled all my non-magician friends-- who enjoyed the rest of the performance very much as well.

Good luck to you and your twin.

Alfred Borden wrote:

Lord Freddie wrote:

DrTodd wrote:What happens when you don't have an arsenal of decks?

He could always carry a rucksack at all times...

When I don't have an arsenal of decks?

Haven't though about that...is the answer I'll be as good and smug as you two?

Don't know, gimmie a clue

It is not smugness, it is that the whole story revolves around running and getting a gimmicked deck, when a standard deck has all you need for hours of entertainment from straightforward card effects to mentalism to reading, and there will be occasions when you need to think about doing non card-based effects, so widen your reading and expand your repertoire. The impromptu nature of what you are doing is wonderful, just over reliant on gimmicks...

DrTodd wrote:

Alfred Borden wrote:

Lord Freddie wrote:

DrTodd wrote:What happens when you don't have an arsenal of decks?

He could always carry a rucksack at all times...

When I don't have an arsenal of decks?

Haven't though about that...is the answer I'll be as good and smug as you two?

Don't know, gimmie a clue

It is not smugness, it is that the whole story revolves around running and getting a gimmicked deck, when a standard deck has all you need for hours of entertainment from straightforward card effects to mentalism to reading, and there will be occasions when you need to think about doing non card-based effects, so widen your reading and expand your repertoire. The impromptu nature of what you are doing is wonderful, just over reliant on gimmicks...

Taken on board, and I agree 100%

I've only been reading and watching DVD's for 5 minutes though so at the moment its gimmicks as I enjoy the reactions I'm getting

Hopefully in 2-3 months after I have finished RRTCM I will be doing some better stuff and not having any use for gimmick decks

Out of interest, I wonder how many experienced magicians on here started with gimmicks and how many just worked hard and were patient before performing?

By the way, the other reason I am performing at the moment with gimmicks is to build confidence and work on patter

Gimmicks do build confidence in the early stages and some great effects can be produced but they become all the more effective when switched in amongst some effects using a normal deck, particularly if the spectator has been allowed to handle it.
You will eventually get someone who wishes to look at the deck...

The whole point I was making was that if your whole repetoire consists of various gimmicked decks, you will end up with bulging pockets and will have to keep bringing decks out and putting them away.

I suggest you learn some non-card material such as sponge balls or a good mind reading effect such as Directors Cut and carry two gaffed decks so that when you put away the deck to produce the other props there is a reason for it.

Lord Freddie wrote:Gimmicks do build confidence in the early stages and some great effects can be produced but they become all the more effective when switched in amongst some effects using a normal deck, particularly if the spectator has been allowed to handle it.
You will eventually get someone who wishes to look at the deck...

The whole point I was making was that if your whole repetoire consists of various gimmicked decks, you will end up with bulging pockets and will have to keep bringing decks out and putting them away.

I suggest you learn some non-card material such as sponge balls or a good mind reading effect such as Directors Cut and carry two gaffed decks so that when you put away the deck to produce the other props there is a reason for it.

Thanks very much for some well worded advice, again all taken on board, I'm working on some basic sleight of hand sponge ball and dice stuff at the moment!

Also been thinking about the gaffed decks and smooth changes with them, magic really does bring out ones creative side!

Cheers again for taking the time to post, and apologies if I took the cynical rucksack comment too personally

That's ok Alfred, a good non gaff trick to start with is Poker Players Picnic from Royal Road and if you have a good D/L, Rapid Transit is worth working on.

The beauty of RRTCM is that you can use the effects from each chapter as you read it...

Once you've read the first chapter, you can have a card selected and controlled in the deck, this gives you a huge amount of ways to get creative...As Freddie says, poker players picnic is easy but effective, and there are a heap of other good effects in ch 1. No need to finish the whole book before you start, you can add effects to your repertoire as you read it.

Once you can control a card (using the overhand shuffle in ch1 and can add a bit of imagination, you're sorted for a good few effects.

There's also a decent thought of card trick in ch 1 or 2, can't remember the name offhand...

Design for laughter is within the first few chapters and is very simple and people enjoy it.

Alfred Borden wrote:Out of interest, I wonder how many experienced magicians on here started with gimmicks and how many just worked hard and were patient before performing?

Didn't start with but do now mainly use gimmicked decks!
Method means nothing. If a gimmicked deck if the best way to achieve an effect then use it. Don't look down on them.

I don't mind gimmicked decks. As has been said before people have spent ages practising complicated sleights only to find the effects enjoyed the most are the gimmicks. I think part of it is the simplicity of many gaff decks so performers concentrate on their performance and relax a bit more. I again think variety is important, you will encounter people who hate card tricks. You may also find yourself performing with a borrowed deck of cards.

I didn't have any gaff decks when I started. It was a Paul Daniel's set and a pack of plastic playing cards. I had a little Collin's gems book of card tricks. As I only had plastic playing cards they didn't handle very well and I learned to deal with it. I largely use self workers as a result of this, but this means most of my repertoire can be done with a grubby pub deck of cards. I'd recommend Scarne on card tricks and the Karl Fulves self working books for giving you a few tricks you can do easily with any deck. The first gimmicked deck I got was the sven and still probably remains my favourite.

My deck is bigger than Lawrence's deck. He has a small deck. All the girls laugh at him, and his wife has a huge crush on me.

And I'm better at moonwalking than him.

I think when it comes down to it, the one rule you should always apply to your method is that everything is permitted. Focus on what you want to appear to be doing and work out the best, most efficient method for that goal. That might be the easiest, simplest method but you also need to bear in mind the risks of getting caught doing it. If a gimmicked deck can achieve the same thing that learning one thousand sleights would, and you've taken steps to ensure that your gimmicked deck won't be spotted, go with the gimmicked deck everytime.

Once you've learnt more sleights, then start introducing them into you'd repertoire, just don't lose sight of the fact that to your audience, your method is entirely irrelevant. They see you doing something amazing regardless of how you achieved it.

A J Irving wrote:... don't lose sight of the fact that to your audience, your method is entirely irrelevant. They see you doing something amazing regardless of how you achieved it.

That's a great quote to remember..... In answer to the question posed earlier, I did start out using gaffs/packet tricks and it was the success I had with those that gave me the impetus to really start learning ropes properly.

As Dr Todd says, there are hours and hours of entertainment that you can get out of a standard deck of cards, once you've mastered some basic techniques. In fact, any card-based effect is increased manifold if you can do it with a borrowed deck - particularly if it's the manky old deck behind the bar at your local!!

As far as the whole 'rucksack' issue goes, I always carry a standard deck with me and, if I remember, an ID too....

Sean

Beardy wrote:My deck is bigger than Lawrence's deck. He has a small deck. All the girls laugh at him, and his wife has a huge crush on me.

And I'm better at moonwalking than him.

You know damn well I can moonwalk better than you!

Gimmicked decks are ok as long as you can switch it in and switch it out otherwise u will get caught at some stage... unless of course your audience is front row Frank & Co.. and most of us dont have that good fortune

Switching Decks is of course another subject but an important one

If i have a gaff card i always take a long time to figure how the gaff is going to leave at the end of the routine or be at least nulled