talkmagic.co.uk

This is a subject i've been wanting to write about and gather other opinions on.
I've read on so many different magic forums inc.this one about magicians moaning about spectators who tell everyone else how they just accomplished their trick or spectators trying to work out how it was done.
Well let me tell you magicians are even worse than laypeople for doing this. When i was a dealer (in a bricks and mortar magic shop for over a year) magicians would come in and ask to see so and so effect.Then if they knew what moves or sleights you just performed they would take great delight in letting you know.
Or if they didn't know they would go off into a corner and get their heads together and try to work it out.
Granted, magicians do it for different reasons than laypeople. Mainly because they like to think they are very knowledgeable about their art and nothing can fool them.
If you go to any magic convention you will see exactly what i mean, this is why the same people go back to that dealer time after time to see it again.
As human beings we are always looking to see how things are accomplished, we will never be able to stop our spectators from trying to work out our methods so what we must do is to entertain them whilst we are fooling them.
Any other opinions?

I would agree that magicians are probably more likely to try and work out how an effect is done, but only the dick heads will point it out. I would say that most magicians are decent people and if they were to see the method or have an idea, they would either keep it to themselves or descuss it in private. That's what I'd do. As for the difference between spectators and magicians both looking to work out effects, granted it's for different reasons, but a spectator is much more likely to just blurt out what they think it is, or what they think they might have just seen, and in doing so, ruin the routine for all the others who are quite happily enjoying it.

I do think it's wrong though that magicians would go into a magic shop asking to see an effect. I understand that it is sometimes nice to see what you're buying, but to just ask with the intention of just trying to work it out without paying is really bad form.

"I do think it's wrong though that magicians would go into a magic shop asking to see an effect. I understand that it is sometimes nice to see what you're buying, but to just ask with the intention of just trying to work it out without paying is really bad form."

You would think so wouldn't you.We had one guy used to come in most days, ask to see something but never buy anything. We then found out he would copy the effect and sell it private. He soon got barred.

I say the following as a non-magician who's beginning to have a bit of a dabble...

I was in London last weekend and found myself in Hamley's watching the Marvin's Magic demos while they were flogging their tin of the 50 greatest magic tricks. It was all basic stuff: silk disappearance with a TT, dynamic coins and (I think) a svengali deck. Watching with the infitessimally small amount of knowledge I have gained I knew the methods, but it was lovely to see these simple tricks being performed by people with some skill. I was even quite surprised at how discreet the TT was, even though I knew what to look for. And no, I didn't shout up that I knew how it was done.

I've always taken the attitude that anyone with more knowledge or experience on a subject you're try to learn should be treated with respect.

Magicians are hypocrites? My God!

Luckily, there's a huge gulf between knowledge and wisdom.

Im going to play devils advocate here a bit....

If a builder goes into a building supply company, for some glue, or some tiles, is it out of order for that Builder to ask technical questons?
Or a plumber, going down to pick up some waskers, or a new ball c**k.. is it ok to ask about thread sizes?

If a magician goes into a magic shop, They are bound to ask questions relating to method, if they have any queeries or thoughts on the method of teh effect.

Now, thats not to say its right to just blurt out the method in front of a shop full of bystanders.. Thats a big no no.

But i think that some chat re methods is ok, providing it's apropriate.

or have i got the wrong end of teh stick re this thread?

spellbound wrote:magicians would come in and ask to see so and so effect.Then if they knew what moves or sleights you just performed they would take great delight in letting you know.
Or if they didn't know they would go off into a corner and get their heads together and try to work it out.

That is really sad!

It's dangerous to generalise, of course, so I would disagree that "most magicians are hypocrites" until someone even sadder than those guys you encountered does some research and finds some evidence to support the theory

Magicians are definitely hypocrites. Just look at all the posts on here saying that it's all about the effect and method doesn't matter, then look at people's reactions to using gimmicked decks. Don't even get me started on stooges!

kartoffelngeist wrote:Magicians are definitely hypocrites. Just look at all the posts on here saying that it's all about the effect and method doesn't matter, then look at people's reactions to using gimmicked decks. Don't even get me started on stooges!

Do not most experienced people post in support of gimmicked decks?

Ted wrote:

kartoffelngeist wrote:Magicians are definitely hypocrites. Just look at all the posts on here saying that it's all about the effect and method doesn't matter, then look at people's reactions to using gimmicked decks. Don't even get me started on stooges!

Do not most experienced people post in support of gimmicked decks?

I'm bordering on being completely against the use of regular decks!

I said to my friend Doug the other day:

"All magicians want to know other magicians' secrets, but we don't want other magicians to know ours."

-Stacy

"I never lecture, not because I am shy or a bad speaker, but simply because I detest the sort of people who go to lectures and I don't want to meet them." - H.L. Mecken

Magicians are hypocrites and thieves largely who show very little creativity. Many preach the idea that is an art form but regularly buy new DVDs of "working" performers and copy the moves and presentations verbatim.

The problem is you can't try before you buy, or return something to a magic shop. You have bought the 'secret' as well as the prop.
Several times I have seen something demo'd and I have thought, for example, that could just be a DL with and Elmsley OR possibly there is a gimmick/technique that I dont know about.
I have to ask, which is awkward, otherwise I am wasting my money. You have to play the awkward game of 'fishing for clues without them giving too much away and without you looking stupid.'

The descriptions on some packet tricks are no help and are often deliberatly vague.
I have a drawer full of CUPS items where I have bought something and been dissappointed.

Discombobulator wrote:I have a drawer full of CUPS items where I have bought something and been dissappointed.

Don't we all!

Lenoir wrote:Magicians are hypocrites and thieves largely who show very little creativity. Many preach the idea that is an art form but regularly buy new DVDs of "working" performers and copy the moves and presentations verbatim.

Wow. That's quite a sweeping statement, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion of every single person on the forum.

If you're that worried, don't release effects on DVD. After all, you're creative, right? So all your routines are your own, and as long as you don't release them, no one can copy them.

-Stacy