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Hi all.

The way I see it if you master the main sleights then technically you could perform any effect. Obviously practise, showmanship and performance make it seamless. How did you learn? Did you just master the sleights first or just choose few effects and practise those? Was thinking of a ACR for my first effect as it uses palm, dl and shuffle controls. Any advances? Would really like to work on Derren Brown three card routine. Anyone able to pm me the names of sleights and flourishes used in this effect? Ill then do the leg work in putting it together.

i've interviewed some of the biggest names in mentalism and, to a lesser extent, magic and there is no single approach. Some go for the effect, some take inspiration from a sleight and some take a more random approach.

svengaliposeur wrote:Hi all.

The way I see it if you master the main sleights then technically you could perform any effect. Obviously practise, showmanship and performance make it seamless. How did you learn? Did you just master the sleights first or just choose few effects and practise those? Was thinking of a ACR for my first effect as it uses palm, dl and shuffle controls. Any advances? Would really like to work on Derren Brown three card routine. Anyone able to pm me the names of sleights and flourishes used in this effect? Ill then do the leg work in putting it together.

Unless the premise is card control, dont shuffle the deck in your ACR routine. Use different methods to have control of the card.

Ideally you dont wanna start with the method. Its not important. First, you have some ideas how the effect would look like. If you have that, then you think of the method to accomplish it. That presumes you have decent knowledge in magic and creative mind, though. With cards, i would suggest to get down some basics. A good force, control, palm, DL. The Derren Brown routine is a little bit too advanced to start it, i'd leave that for later. With these sleights though, you can create decent miracles.

K.

I'd say that with my routines I started out with an idea for the effect, then worked back to how it could be accomplished. This is probably 90% the case but there have been the odd occation where a sleight or other random thing has sparked an idea off.

There's an extra leg or two in my process.... I *generally* follow a pattern of Emotional Impact.... Story.... Effect.... Method.

That will get jumbled around, sometime I'll see an effect (rarely a method) and work a story and associated emotional impact into that effect. I find that these are my least original and creative moments however and I much prefer and enjoy creating something in the order I described.

Read Absolute Magic and come back to us.

There's so much tosh out there due to people creating a sleight then thinking "now lets see what effects i can do with this...". E would be a good example of this.

I think you are getting things backwards. Start with the effect and only learn what you need to acomplish that effect. Then spend all that time you have freed up learning to make it entertaining. If more people thought this way we would have less boring magicians.

Thanks for the responses guys. It seems most think it best to choose an effect and perfect that. My only concern being when would you call yourself a magician? Are there a minimum set of sleights you need to know? I would much rather know four effects and do them well than hundreds badly! So next question. What are the basic moves all should be able to perform to hold title magician?

You can be a magician without knowing any sleights. But if you do know some you have more options.

svengaliposeur wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. It seems most think it best to choose an effect and perfect that. My only concern being when would you call yourself a magician? Are there a minimum set of sleights you need to know? I would much rather know four effects and do them well than hundreds badly! So next question. What are the basic moves all should be able to perform to hold title magician?

Seriously, is this a wind up?

Vanderbelt not trying to offend just debate. Im not looking for methods or spoilers. I have some knowledge and know where to look for more. I was simply wondering about views from those more experienced.

Ted wrote:You can be a magician without knowing any sleights. But if you do know some you have more options.

Correct. There is no exam, no objective benchmark. You will see all sorts of quotes about how a magician must have mastered the cups and balls, or must have done this or that. They don't represent anything more than someone's opinion. Admittedly, they are sometimes the opinion of someone very knowledgeable, but the performing arts are not hard sciences.

Personally, I think you are a magician when you can entertain someone by doing magic. That is not (in my book) making people laugh at jokes then slipping a trick in every few minutes. You can do comedy or juggling or whatever as part of the performance, but a magician entertains with magic.

svengaliposeur wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. It seems most think it best to choose an effect and perfect that. My only concern being when would you call yourself a magician? Are there a minimum set of sleights you need to know? I would much rather know four effects and do them well than hundreds badly! So next question. What are the basic moves all should be able to perform to hold title magician?

Well, if this isn't a wind up then....

There is no 'level' at which you earn some kind of psuedo-title of 'magician'. I personally agree with Part-Timer's definition and Ted is spot on also. You could entertain masses with a routine full of self-working magic tricks and never know a sleight.

On a broader note, how about not worrying about whether you're a magician or not and just enjoy 'being into' magic?

You are a magician when you ENTERTAIN people with magic. Whether it involves a sleight or not is irrelevant. In twenty years no one has ever paid me to see a sleight. If they ever do I might learn some.

You will know when you are a magician and won't need anyone to tell you. I remember distinctly when I first realised I was a magician. I was at a magic show waiting for it to start. It was a public show put on by the London Society of Magicians at the Conway Hall. I looked around the audience and saw a lot of magicians there. It suddenly dawned on me, "Oh my God! I am a magician too! An actual magician!"

To be a GOOD magician is something else. I don't think I have seen thirty good magicians in my entire life. Certainly not more than fifty and I am being generous here. My friend, famed international busker Peter Snow is even more selective than me. I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he growled to me "there are only about three good magicians in the entire world". Mind you, he was in a grumpy mood that day. When he is in a good mood he might admit there were five.