talkmagic.co.uk

Hello everyone,

Having read the posts from an earlier topic I started I am even more aware that its the performance that matters and that I don't need to perfect every sleight, flourish and effect to become an entertaining magician.

I have therefore decided to choose a few effects I can practise as part of a routine, which when confident I could present. What I'm after here is your ideas on my selection. I intend to present in a "dark" and "gothic" style with patter relating to supernatural explanations for the effects.

So, here goes....

1. Card Effect: ACR
2. Card Effect: Zamiels Rose
3. Card Effect: Out of this World(but using photos which seperate into dead and alive)
4. Mentalist Effect: Body Language (Charles Gauci) Performer correctly identifies who has select the black ball from the bag.

I now need another mentalism effect and something startling to end with. Anyone have any suggestions, please just comment with an effect, obviously I'll work the method out for myself or PM me.

Throughout my performance I intend to tell the audience a narrative about supernatural occurences in Victorian times and how they have lived on today with each effect, exact wording I have still to find out but ultimately I want something dark an mysterious.

Any comments on my idea appreciated. Ideally want effects that work equally as good on close up table hopping work and would also suit a small stage gathering too. I'm not interested in big stage illusions

Thanks

Three effects are Derren's, or performed by Derren.

Imitating success isn't the way forward, being inspired by success is definitely a positive step.

I suggest you reassess who you are and not who else has been successful.

Have you had a butchers at blackharts Jack the ripper routine? (No pun intended!)

There's a lot of stuff that might be of interest on that site

I think you're trying to run before you can walk. I do think that it's right to not just read through books like Royal Road like a book, and to use them more like you would use a dictionary, but for the rest of this post I think you're setting goals that are too far in the future for you. It would would be a shame if you tried so hard to learn these but because of their difficulty you become put off.

Also, I would not perform an Ambitious card routine before and kind of mentalism, it's going from something that is clearly sleight of hand to something that's ment to be mental. They're just two bits of a puzzle that don't fit.

What you need to do is find some books, or dvds that are at a more beginner to intermidiate lever to learn from, there are plenty out there and reviewed on this site. Learn some of your favourites from these, then perhaps find others like them. This will help you find the types of effects that not only you really enjoy, but you can perform well plus at the same time building your skill, sleight knowledge and confidence.

It just sounds like you're getting a little too over excited. Excitment and passion to learn are good, but be realistic at the same time. Don't think too far ahead.

Thanks for replies everyone.

Comments taken on board and I hadn't considered had so much DB material. Will remove the Zamiels Rose piece but want to retain the body language and OOTW effect as it links nicely to my supernatural theme.

In relation to running before walking then I take that on board, however I think I will learn more if I come up with a routine to perfect, that doesn't mean I won't be doing other stuff too. I have been watching a reading a lot og magic so need to choose some to focus on, hence the routine plan.

I will take a look at blackharts jack the ripper routine, thanks for that.

Any more advice for effect welcome, especially anything using a ouija board as again will fit in with supernatural theme

#3 sounds like Lebanon Circle's "From Hell".
If so you will probably need a table, (and table hopping does not guarantee that...), and also be VERY careful, whilst brilliant, it's not a trick you can use everywhere with all audiences, no matter what your "peersona" is like. I would lose the ACR and defintely look for a replacement from Black Hart http://www.blackhart.co.uk/.
Although now consigned to the "drawer of doom" somewhere, I have http://www.blackhart.co.uk/page70.html - soooo simple, but packed a lovely punch Saying that, it's all about ways to die, so not perfect for the table-hoppping audience...
Most of the magic you will find at Black Hart is simple to do, so that you can really concentrate on that performance.
Think about the genre more, and the subject matter. I am all for re-writing "patter" to fit a trick, but an ACR? I don't think so.
Instead of the Gauci effect, perhaps Black Hart's (new) "Madame Pandora" (I think...) would fit the bill better?
Even a Haunted Key would work here.
Have you read any of "The Mystic Menagerie" available from The Lebanon Circle? You will probably get some ideas from that.
What kind of events are you planning to work at that would benefit from a "Dark and Gothic Table Hopper"? If I was having a meal and the Grim Reaper turned up while I was eating my main course and talking to my wife I'd probably tell him where to stick his scythe
Think some more about this - I'm not trying to put you off, just save you some time in the long run.
Bruce

Bruce,

Thanks for the comment. The Blackhart stuff really appeals so will be having a good look around there. I do however take your point on the gothic style for table hopping work tho - perhaps that will be inappropriate.

I am particularly interested in card work so will perhaps have two routines, one mainly of cards for table work and the other stuff for an audience. In relation to table work will be fine with a routine here as there are loads of good effects which can be light hearted enough for dinner.

As ever, everyones insight is so helpful

So when are you preparing to "table hop"? I agree that the whole gothic thing not the right approach to this type of venue. I'm not a stage magicain so I can't comment on it for that area, but for this working routine you're thinking of, why not just put it on ice for a while. Instead of thinking "yeah I want to perform these together for people at their dinner table", spend time learning lots and then find routines that work well together through experiance, and that fit you as a performer, don't just pick a style because you think it's 'cool', let your own character develop and allow your routines to develop with that character. I personally think this whole idea is just a little too far ahead of you as from the sounds of it, you're fairly early on. Not saying you're not skillful as of course I've never seen you, but I'm just making my assumptions based on your blog and previous posts. Just enjoy learning for now and once you feel really compitant, then take another look at putting together a working routine.

hds I'm not thinking of working any time soon but am looking to develop a character for magic. I appreciate "be yourself" is always good advice but I want to create something noteable that when I do perform for people they know to expect a certain type of routine, for me something dark appeals.

Don't worry I am still working through the RRTCM for card effects because afterall most new effects tend to have started in there somewhere. I won't run before I can walk and before I think of performing I will have toyed with plenty of things first. After all unless I was competent I wouldn't show myself up in public.

In my view magic can take so many routes in performance and I just want to choice a style that intrigues me most as then I will enjoy performing it more.

Thanks for your comments

Well just a warning for this whole character thing, the old advice of "be yourself" has been said over and over so many times for a reason. I understand that you might want to creat something that people will be able to remember you for, like a catch phrase or calling card, but at least while you're learning, and most likely performing for family and friends, maybe lay off the idea of being dark and mysterious. Unless you dress like a hardcore goth, if you suddenly go from your normal self into a dark person, people are going to pick up on this fake persona and will find it weird and most likely know that you're about to do something tricky that they should look out for. Also it's great that you want to creat a kind of character that will excite you, but as much as you need to be excited about what you're doing, you've got to remember that performing magic is something that is largly based on what other people think, so don't just think of something you'll like, think of something that wont freak out your average joe.

I'm not trying to put you off or have a dig but it just seems like you're concentrating on the wrong things right now. Besides, I'm sure that if you don't like what I'm saying you can always just do what you want, I'm just trying to explain something that you might look back on otherwise and wish you'd stopped and thought about a bit more.

Black Hart tricks are a good place to start, cheap, simple workings and strong stories. Damnation is a good starting point and power of the tarot. Paul Prater's witch of Glastonbury is another good simple trick with a good plot (3 alternatives in the instructions).

Mystic Menagerie is definitely a good read on bizarre magic and it's cheap. The first issue is available free on the website. Issue 3 has a psychometry routine that may interest you.

Stephen Wards book on scripting for bizarre magic might be useful to you

Plenty of good dealers now for this sort of prop

http://www.lebanoncircle.co.uk/" target="_blank
http://www.blackhart.co.uk/page53.html" target="_blank
http://smokeandmirrorsuk.wordpress.com/" target="_blank
http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/" target="_blank
http://www.unleashyourdreams.co.uk/Unle ... /Home.html" target="_blank
http://www.magicbox.uk.com/magic-tricks ... magic.html" target="_blank
http://www.paulprater.com/paulprater1_010.11" target="_blank

Hds I value your opinion as all you say seems sensible and im certainly no goth. Just like the dark style effects. In your opinion what should I concentrate on now that will benefit me in long run?

Like I said, if you're early on in your learning, then forget character as what you will find is that as you learn and just perform more it will develop with you, you probably wont even know it's happening. There was a thread on here not too long ago that asked what kind of character people used when they went out and performed and I think 90% of the responses were that they were themselves, just that little more. For a while like I said, I'm sure you're only going to be performing to friends and family who will know you, and so to try and creat a character to perform to them will be a bit silly because they'll see right through it.

As for what to concentrate on now. I'd say to decide what you enjoy the most, coins, cards ect and run with it. You can branch off a little bit, but mainly hit the same area. A jack of all trades is a master of none. I would then watch a fair bit of material in that area you find most interesting and then perhaps track down effects and routines that you see or are similar. I wouldn't just read Royal Road and books of that nature like you would a normal book. Maybe skim through it and the trick sections for interesting bits, but instead use it as though you would a dictionary, when learning refer to it for more details on the paticular sleight.

Just take small steps and set yourself achievable goals. Not saying that what you've mentioned isn't achievable, but make a goal that you can achieve in a week or a month, not something you would take years to get to, performing these kinds of dark themed effects for work.

Thanks will be concentrating on cards mainly. Agree with character point. I admire Lennart Green for his clumsy style which is excellent as he is so skilled but the style also suits his appearance. Not meaning to be insulting there by the way

hds is right in many aspects, i do think it would be perfectly fine for you to develop.......not so much a routine..... but a few tricks that you can perform, a routine implys you can tie all the effects together and make them work in conjunction with each other.....soemthing which hds rightly says is probably beyond your skill level, being as you're still so new to magic!

once you've perfected a few effects, you can then concentrate on making them fit together and apply your patter to them.......