talkmagic.co.uk

Heckler wrote:

Dye Vernon wrote:I love how magicians always tell newbs to learn sleights whereas the reality is if they had a trick deck or a gaff, they could do miracles with almost no effort or practise. .

Pack of bikes £2.00, number of tricks possible - infinite

Packet trick with gimmick £15-30, number of tricks - one

Nothing wrong with having a gimmicked deck or two but the confidence you have in knowing that you can perform miracles with a dog eared deck of the pub's own cards is much more fulfilling. Effort and practise are not dirty words, little of any value was ever gained without them.

You'll learn you only need one trick. Just do it better than anyone else. Not many laypeople care after the 2nd pick a card.

My point was, yes, of course practising sleights and getting competent is great. But if you are starting, the instant pleasure you can get from a sven or brainwave is immense. The confidence that feeling gives you I suggest would actually propel you faster on the path of being a good magician than practising a perfect faro on your own in your bedroom.

forget gimmicks versus non gimmicks. Find effects you really like and learn those effects. If it requires a gimmick so be it, if not then so bit also. Learning effects based on method is not going to enhance your performance ability. Learning and showing effects that suit your style, and that you like to perform. Well those are going to be your reputation makers.

Dye Vernon wrote:
You'll learn you only need one trick. Just do it better than anyone else. Not many laypeople care after the 2nd pick a card.

Oh dear!

Danielmp007 wrote:, gaff deck one trick, set of bikes unlimited.

This kind of thinking makes me sad.
Stop it. Stop it now!

Not many laypeople care after the 2nd pick a card.

That's why you never present it that way, even if that is what it is...
See, (for example), the Waikiki Shuffle "trick", or "The Bullet Trick". They are both "pick a card/find a card" but neither are presented like that.
Bruce

I've never heard of a shell coin been known by a laymen

Anyway my list would be

Tool (For the Torn and Restored effect alone)
ID
Mirage Deck
Loops
Shell coin
Coinvexed
Psypher

I'll be honest.I'm very adept with a deck of cards and coins but I find myself using gimmicks more and more as of late with the gigs I'm getting.No one ever asks me can they inspect anything so I don't see the reason in doing things the hard way when it can be done the easy way.Above all,in my opinion, no amount of card effects can ever get the same effect as revealing the name of a person that someone is merely thinking of followed by bending their coin in their hand.

I think the ID is almost essential and the reactions I get from that are priceless

BUT - I am working through Pearlman's DVD and once I get the ACR down I will be much happier!

I heard (possibly on this forum) that actually one of the best uses for an ID is not as an effect in itself (which is how I've usually seen it used) but as an excellent out for a mentalism effect if a psychological force or glimpse fails.

-Stacy

It's far too good to use as just an 'out'

Dont underestimate the power of the ID.Presented properly it is a real show stopper and can get an audience hyped to the max.I've learned that pauses at the right time in the routine add seriously to the impact.When the card is seen upside down I take it out and rest it on the spectators hand.Then go through the idea of how impossible it would be for it to be their card.One person told me he would give me a B*** J** if it was the card.Unfortunatly for me it was :O

The4thCircle wrote:The point I was trying to make was that the gimmick alone will usually impress no one without decent handling, it's hard to contruct a meaningful routine with one very specific effect.

Tell you what. Let's get two beginners. I will give them an sven deck and teach them how to be entertaining. You teach them a top change, a DL and a pass and see who can impress an audience the fastest and easiest...

Dye Vernon wrote:My point was, yes, of course practising sleights and getting competent is great. But if you are starting, the instant pleasure you can get from a sven or brainwave is immense. The confidence that feeling gives you I suggest would actually propel you faster on the path of being a good magician than practising a perfect faro on your own in your bedroom.

I agree, just having a smorgasbord of sleights that are perfect isn't entertaining anyone and that ultimately (lest we forget) is why we do what we do. Don't get me wrong I'm not against gaffs and trick decks, if the spectator is entertained then any method is okay, what I do object to is the idea that a gaff is a shortcut and therefore no practice is required. That's why as a newbie I started with the sleights and an ungimmicked deck, because in practicing to perfect the trick, the routine naturally evolves, the patter comes to you as you practice and when you perform it, because you've practiced the sleights involved until you can perform it in front of the telly without even looking at the cards, you can concentrate on the presentation, not on whether the gaff will work or not. When you see what you can achieve with a trick with a method as simple as Poker Player's Picnic, it's a revelation.

Dye Vernon wrote:Tell you what. Let's get two beginners. I will give them an sven deck and teach them how to be entertaining. You teach them a top change, a DL and a pass and see who can impress an audience the fastest and easiest...

And then let's get the same two to perform a half an hour act each, I guarantee that the guy with three decent sleights can find enough routines to fill the time.

Urgh...

Lawrence wrote:Urgh...

Care to expand on that?

If I may pop into the discussion here, I believe it depends on what special deck you're using. So I guess both of you are right on a certain perspective. For example, lets say you used a dynamo deck. This comes with a book with more than one thing to teach. An ID deck, neglecting the way you present it, is the same effect as long as we are concerned.