talkmagic.co.uk

Hi,

I'm currently taking a course in Media Production and am doing a documentary on the conflicts between traditional and modern magic. I was just interested in finding out magicians views on the subject in general - no focused topic, so the sexism (e.g. how magic has progessively begun to get more female magicians as time's gone on), how magic has progressed/how a certain effect has progressed through the times.

Just some ideas, if anyone has any ideas then feel free to put them down, even if you don't have an answer as such (although it'd be great if you did )

Kyle.

Can you give us an example of what you think traditional magic is and what modern magic is?

It seems to me there is no difference really, but "modern" magic is just filmed with cheesy out of focus DSLR cameras with PUMPING soundtracks performed by kids in hoodies and badly credited?

There isnt a conflict between traditional magic, and modern magic . ( what ever that is)

the conflict, if it exists at all, is one between traditional, and modern thinkers.

sometimes, Im kind of stuck in the middle of it..
you should maybe have me on the show.

When you say Traditional Magic do you mean before Robert Houdin?

V.E. Day wrote:When you say Traditional Magic do you mean before Robert Houdin?

AKA.. THE FATHER OF MODERN MAGIC.

I think possibly the original poster means the presentational differences between magic performed by suave suited individuals and street wise in your face performers who say "look" and "okay" a lot. I get the impression that was what he meant. That development... even though both of those archetypes have sort of been around for about the same length of time.

Or maybe he's interested in how magic was originally developed by the fake psychics and street gamblers of the ancient world and used to frighten, bamboozle, or otherwise swindle uneducated locals or passing travellers out of their hard earned money (and sheep, if you go back far enough), the techniques for which were picked up by said travellers and transformed over time into the form of entertainment we know today.

Although as I said about presentational styles, magic and mentalism techniques are STILL used to con the gullible... Perhaps modern is a bad word to use regarding magic...

-Stacy

Yes I don't think that there's much in the way of a conflict between the two types. I guess you could point at a performer and say whether their style is more of one than the other. Guy Hollingworth for example I would say is very classical in the way he performs magic compared to many street magicians such as Mr. Blain. Saying that though there are a lot if not most magicians that would fall into the vast grey area that's in between the two ends of the spectrum. I myself prefer the classical style of a magician sitting down at a nice table with a small group to perform something that's nice and eligant rather than the guy in board shorts and a vest top wowing a group of tourists on the street. Saying that though I can still admire those types of magician and so there's not a conflict as such, I guess only if it came down to presentation, but that's not such an issue unless someone is doing something completely insane.

I think the easy answer to the whole traditional vs modern is that very few magicians are one or the other, most will fall somewhere in the middle, and even though there might be a bit of debate over how to perform certain effects, they can equally admire and hopefully respect eachothers magic as much as each other.

I don't see a distinction between traditional and modern magic. I think the question is meaningless, unless asked in a far more specific manner.

TonyB wrote:I don't see a distinction between traditional and modern magic. I think the question is meaningless, unless asked in a far more specific manner.

Well I think there is a differance between the classic gentleman style of presentation of perople like Cardini which many magicians today mimmick in their own way, and magicians nowadays who are very flashy and in your face. What you're saying is kind of like saying there's no difference between renaissance paintings and pop art. I know that's a slightly bizzare comparrison but it's kind of ture.

For me, the difference is one of audience. On the whole, the people magicians are performing to nowadays are a lot more knowledgeable about tricks and sleights and will no longer buy the same explanations, they are much more aware that it's a trick, and how that could be done. This has led to a focus amongst (especially younger) magicians that they have to buy the newest trick, learn the hardest sleights, etc, rather than focus on the performing. Just how I see it any way

hds02115 wrote:

TonyB wrote:I don't see a distinction between traditional and modern magic. I think the question is meaningless, unless asked in a far more specific manner.

Well I think there is a differance between the classic gentleman style of presentation of perople like Cardini which many magicians today mimmick in their own way, and magicians nowadays who are very flashy and in your face. What you're saying is kind of like saying there's no difference between renaissance paintings and pop art. I know that's a slightly bizzare comparrison but it's kind of ture.

Houdini was brash and in your face - back in the nineteen twenties and earlier. Lance Burton is gentlemanly - and fills halls today. The difference is in your head, not in reality.

the true difference , if there is one, is these days magicians tend to go on as themselves, rather than creating a character.

It aseems to me that Tony is correct here.
Magicians always seem to be looking for distinctions that do not exist. Everything has been done before, and is recycled.
Look at ancient pictures of early Cup and Balls performers at markets - they are not exactly "gentlemanly"!
The point about audiences is important - I think people go to see a specific type of performer, and that may influence their perception of what is "normal" and "current".
"...conflicts between traditional and modern magic" is not a phrase that makes any sense to me I'm afraid, it needs much more clarity.
Bruce

daleshrimpton wrote:the true difference , if there is one, is these days magicians tend to go on as themselves, rather than creating a character.

Not quite. Today there is one guy getting good reviews by doing magic dressed as a dragon, while Teller never talks on stage. There were always performers who played themselves, and others who adopted a character. That hasn't changed.

This is quite an interesting question really. Perhaps it should be, is there such a thing as a modern presentation? People seem to see the funky, jeans and t-shirt wearing magicians as something new but are they really? I'm sure that they's always been loud, brash, jack the lad character set up on street corners but perhaps it's more that now they're getting more coverage than they have in the past. But there are just as many elegant performers out there so that style certainly isn't out dated or dead.