talkmagic.co.uk

Thanks for the info, fellow magicians!

What I was trying to say a few post backs...

The limitations of an effect don't have to be the end-point. They can be the starting point.

End point: "Specs may suspect the plastic sleeve, so I won't use it."

Starting point: "Specs may suspect the plastic sleeve. Great! I'll tell them that it IS gimmicked, then switch it and watch as the hilariously try to figure it out. Ho ho!"

Another way to look at it...

There's the concept (probably from the world of sales and NLP) that if an objection is in people's heads, bring it out in the open, but if it isn't, don't mention it. Regarding magic and gimmicks: if they're suspecting the gimmick, work the concept of the gimmick being dodgy into the routine, so that it can be dealt with on a conscious level. If it isn't in their head, don't.

That's a great theory. The problem is, you don't always know whether an objection is in someone's head or not. This is particularly true in magic, where the spec may be too polite to tell you that they "know" how the trick is done.

So, you have to make a judgement call. Like David Bonsall, you can just perform the effect then move on quickly to the next trick, knowing that many specs (possibly most of them?) won't suspect the clear plastic sleeve at all. Or you can go the other way, take the cautious route (my personal preference at this stage) and assume that they all WILL suspect the gimmick (even though this may not actually be the case), and bring this concept out into the open right from the start.

On the WOW DVD, Chris Ballinger gets the spec to examine the plastic sleeve before the trick.

He actually use two sleeves - one gimmicked, one not. He gets the spec to inspect both (but really the same one twice). His routine is to have a sleeve on the top and bottom and sealed with an elastic band.

Interesting. Totally wouldn't help with my routine, but I think my routine should be OK as it is, switching it in a switching wallet.

My advice, rather than pontificating about whether the specs suspect the sleeve blah blah, is to do what I did. Go out there and use the damn thing. You''ll find from experience that specs don't really care about these things. I have used it in many performances and never had a problem. They don't even ask to examine it as long as you show it empty before and after by holding it up to the light. Sometimes people over-analyse and make things a problem when they quite clearly aren't.

To quote a manufacturer of chav attire: JUST DO IT!

I'm 100% with Lord Freddie.

Show the case empty, hold it up to the light and casually toss it on the table - it'a an empty case - they'll NEVER suspect otherwise, unless you give them reason to do so.
I've performed this countless times and I could prob count on one hand the amount of times that the spec has wanted to examine the sleeve. They can casually examine it - if they do ask to examine it, hold it up to the light again and show it emtpy - you'll find that 99.9% of the time they'll be examining the card that you just removed from the sleeve ... there MUST be 2 cards stuck together - that's the ONLY explanation isn't it ???

My view is, you can't possibly know that they won't think about the sleeve afterwards unless you prove that it wasn't the sleeve, and the only way to do that is to let them have a go.

If I just wanted a quick moment in a particular effect, I'm sure I would take your approach, but I want to build a humorous routine around this effect and the concept if it being gimmicked. Make a battery fall out of the bottom, for example.

You're probably assume that I'm building this routine out of paranoia, but I did say in my post that I think most people probably won't suspect it. I'm building this routine because I want to explore that thought in the spec's mind. I want to explore the concept of an object being a gimmicked magic prop recieved as a present some years ago. It's a concept that fascinates me.

And as I've said I've seen a pro working with it and I know that most people don't ask to inspect it afterwards.

Mr Tailor, I do get the impression you aren't a regular performer (for the public). You are pontificating about an effect you have never performed. Just....do....it....

Gawd, people worry about performing a magic trick as if it's life threatening! Trust me, it'll work a dream and you'll look at these posts and feel a bit of a numpty.

I haven't at any point said or even suggested that I'm "worried". I'm working on a routine. I really can't see the problem.

I'm not worried in the least. I could quite happily just use the gimmick, then put it away and move on to something else, but I choose not to.

As I've said a few times now, I'm interested in exploring the concept of getting the spectator to suspect the gimmick, so that I can then prove to them that it's not.

I think it will be an amusing and fascinating routine. It's a plot that appeals to me. I can't see why that is so wrong.

Good on you Laurence. Whilst in essence I agree that in the most part people should just get on and use it, get great reactions, you won't look back and feel stupid.

It's people who try and disregard you working on an idea and trying to understand a reaction or theory yourself that are pushing magic backwards. I would be willing to bet that in 10 years, none of the spectators who have seen WOW performed are going to remember it at all.

If with some thought, some routining and a good concept you can change that, more power to you.

Thank you, Lenoir.

I totally get that it's fine to just use the effect as it is, but I think it would be great to give the spec a series of moments, to lead them through a sort of twisting path, where the nature of the routine keeps changing:

1 "Oh, he's just going to demonstrate some toy he got when he was 8. Weirdo! What a lame magician. But maybe fun."

2 They examine the item and find that it looks like nothing more than a plastic sleeve thingy. They're puzzled.

3 "Wait... that's... WOW! I wasn't expecting that. How the hell....?"

4 I hand the item to them again and a card, and they have a go for themselves. It doesn't seem to work. They are now baffled.

5 An AA battery drops out of the bottom. "Ah, no wonder it didn't work this time. The battery is flat." The whole thing has been reduced to comedy. Clearly I have been having them on all along.

A routine with five emotional stages. Disappointment/pity, then puzzlement (on a social level: "What's this guy up to?"), then excitement/amazement, then bafflement (on a more logical level), then (I hope) laughter.

I think that's pretty good for a simple gimmick!

The fact that it happens to prevent them from working out the mechanics afterwards is a nice bonus.

Let me know how it goes at your next gig, Lawrence, sounds like a good idea.
There was a similar kind of thing using gaffed cards that came with Ultragaff deck where you peeled a card back to show batteries inside and then dropped them into the specs hand. Good comedy and surprise potential.

Thanks, Lord Freddie of Deepest Berkshire.

I don't get a lot of gigs yet but I'll certainly try it in the pub.

Lord Laurence of London

It's an odd thing is Wow!. It's one of those items that you think will arouse suspicion until you actually do it. No one cares about the sleeve at all. It certainly gets great reactions and is what would be called a "worker".

As an example of specator's memory distorting the effect and the lack of importance they place on the plastic case, I saw someone yesterday who I performed for at a party over a year ago and their recollection of my performance using Wow! was that I placed the card on the table in front of them and it changed before their eyes!
They had completely eradicated the plastic case and the fact I was holding it from their memory...