talkmagic.co.uk

Hypnotists that don't believe in hypnotism !
Blimey, what next ? .... you'll be saying that there are magicians do not believe in magic.

I think our young policeman is being terribly rude. He will never get promotion acting like that. It is most important that he shows respect to senior citizens in his work and refrain from impertinence. Particularly with someone like myself with superior knowledge and experience. I am glad he believes in the non-existence of hypnosis. That is half the battle. Now he has to work on the other half.

As to Ormond Mc'Gill I don't care what books he wrote. Paul Goldin also wrote learned material and clinical articles on hypnosis but he told me personally that it was a load of old hooey. As for Gil Boyne who also wrote books on hypnosis and was considered one of the leading lights in these matters I am afraid that Martin Breese once said to me, "Gil Boyne sat in that same chair you are sitting in now and told me that hypnosis was a load of baloney" Of course he said this before the age of the internet and did not know that Martin would tell me this and I would blabber it online for the whole world to see. As for that wonderful old genius Ormond Mc'Gill he once gave a talk on hypnosis to a magician's convention and when he came off stage one of his friends said to him, "You don't believe all that stuff you said up there, do you?" He replied, "Of course not!" Alas somebody overheard the conversation and the evil Mark Lewis got to hear about it so that is why you are reading it now.

I still remember meeting a delightful old con man named Henry Blythe. He was a top stage hypnotist of his day. His son Peter became a hypnotherapist and wrote a book on the subject. He was the just about the only hypnotherapist I ever came across who actually stated in print that the considered that the hypnotic trance did not exist. Very brave of him I thought.

But don't listen to me. Listen to all the distinguised psychologists Like Dr Graham Wagstaff and others (and I would name them if I had the energy) who have outright stated that there is no such thing as the trance state or an altered state of conciousness. Or read what Kreskin has had to say about it multiple times. Or best of all read, "They Call it Hypnosis" by Robert Baker.

Best of all use your own common sense.

Oh Marky!

As much as I do care for the community and it's elderly patrons, I'm afraid that some frail pensioners experience dillusional grandeur and don't really have the capability to conform to social Norms.

I'm afraid to say that I won't be taking this pointless conversation further with you due to the fact that you have already dragged me to your stupid level, now that I'm there you would beat me with your experience.

Onward with the discussion please!

(sorry Mandrake, if you feel that this needs to be deleted then so be it but people such as the trolling Mark Lewis should know better at his age about how to conduct ones self on a public forum that contains their own web address.)

Alec

Lol what is it about hypnosis discussions that they always end up locked

Just googled Graham Wagstaff, just out of interest, his bio says:

"For over 25 years he has been attempting to link hypnotic phenomena with normal psychological processes drawn, in particular, from social and cognitive psychology. His theoretical standpoint, originally described in his book ‘Hypnosis Compliance and Belief’ (1981), is that hypnotic phenomena are most readily understood in terms of familiar psychological concepts such as compliance, conformity, attitudes, beliefs, roles, expectations, attention, and imagination."

So he's been trying to dis-prove hypnosis for 25 years?

and

"He has been concerned most especially with the extent to which hypnotic phenomena are manifestations of behavioural compliance" ... "his research suggests that behavioural compliance is an integral feature of phenomena such as hypnotic amnesia. "

So he's saying that when a subject suffers amnesia that they are pretending? I don't believe that.

As far as I know, or at this moment even care, I am able to tell someone something is happening and they believe that to be the case. I don't know how that works, but If it is working then surely that is what "hypnotism" is for me.

I'm happy to accept that this may not be what some describe as a trance state and altering the subconcious, and the literal description of what hypnosis is is not actually occuring but no-one seems to be able to put into words what really is going on other than "bunkum" & "hooey"? I want to understand, but it appears nobody can tell me.

It has been my experience that those who argue most vociforously for the existance of hypnosis are those who don't do it, and so don't really know what they are talking about. Those of us who do stage shows know what is going on on our stages - and it has nothing to do with hypnosis, whether such a thing exists or not.

Craig, you have done TIA, so you know the power of the human imagination without pretense of trance.

What is going on is self delusion. Some subjects actually convince themselves that they have been "hypnotised". Now if you want to call this delusion "hypnosis" then be my guest. It will then be a matter of semantics as our rather excitable young policeman has pointed out.

There are also a number of instances where social compliance is a factor. Stage hypnotists are well aware that there are what is known as "contract players" on stage. That is that they are not "hypnotised" in the slightest but are playing along for the sake of the show. There is no formal arrangement between the hypnotist and these subjects. It is just something that is understood to be going on. Providing these subjects do not over-act then they are allowed to remain on stage so as to put on a good show. These are the exhibionists that are a decided asset to a hypnotist providing they do not overdo things. This applies less to the impromptu variety of hypnosis which relies more on the power of suggestion and the confusion techniques that I outlined in previous posts.

Here is an example of a contract player at work. The fellow dressed in blue and who was the most animated subject. He was very convincing but I have reason to believe from things I found out later that he was a contract player although I cannot be 100% sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KooAZlDTCps" target="_blank

I am talking about hypnosis here. I start at 7mns 30 seconds or so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct_qUS3b ... re=related" target="_blank

And I continue here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMO5wcDv ... re=related

jon_kent wrote:Lol what is it about hypnosis discussions that they always end up locked

Beats me Jon but mostly it's to do with an inbuilt reluctance to back off when a thread turns personal and when asked nicely to get back on topic. Regrettably this thread seems to be no exception.......