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As magicians, are we called to...

a) Fool people in an entertaining way?

or

b) Entertain people by fooling them?

It is my belief that my two primary goals as a magician is to entertain and to fool people. But in which order must we do it?

This may seem like a useless poll, and in reality it is, however, hopefully it will spark some interesting debate.

There's also the option of neither, but please explain your reasoning behind that choice

I'd say neither I entertain by amazing people not fooling them. Is the distinction as clear as I have it in my own head??

I'd say neither I entertain by amazing people not fooling them

But do people get fooled when you perform?

If you think not with the magic, how about with the mentalism?

Happy Toad wrote:I'd say neither I entertain by amazing people not fooling them. Is the distinction as clear as I have it in my own head??

I see what you mean, but surely you are fooling them so badly they are amazed? Therefore, fundamentally, when everything is else is taken away, you are fooling them?

Yes of course they are fooled but I don't really see fooling them as my main goal, rather entertaining and amazing them, fooling them is just the route to the goal.

In this way they end feeling amazed and not fooled, does this make any sense?

Sure that makes sense. But the fact that they are fooled still remains, though perhaps not consciously, it is the use that you put the fooling to that really amazes.

Hmm I don't like the whole term or even thinking of fooling people. If they feel fooled then it seems to me you have made a fool of them or at least made to feel a fool. I think it's the wrong attitude for a magician to have and those that have this attitude are more likely to have difficult spectators, something I very rarely have.

I won't say that we fool Joe Public, they know we are doing something (hopefully very cleverly), we are tricking them.

They know it isn't a genuine assist from the devil when a card rises from the deck or a chosen card appears behind a Hilman Minx windscreen (hee he ,had to get that one in)

We trick them, and they know it. OK, some people will believe what you tell them. Perform well

There are many roads you can go down to analyse what you do.

The most bland, and worrying one is to just say, that like all entertainers, magicians are there too make someone's time more enjoyable.
This can be done by impressing them, or doing something they didn't expect. Something new.

KamaKase wrote:The most bland, and worrying one is to just say, that like all entertainers, magicians are there too make someone's time more enjoyable.

Bland? Worrying? To make anyone's time more enjoyable, to entertain a person, is one of the greatest gifts you can give to anyone. Have I misunderstood your post?

happy toad wrote:If they feel fooled then it seems to me you have made a fool of them or at least made to feel a fool.

I don't mean that they should feel fooled in any way, but they should be taken in by the deception allowing you to amaze them. Slightly poor use of the word really, but it is the one that seems most used by magicians.

The most bland, and worrying one is to just say, that like all entertainers, magicians are there too make someone's time more enjoyable.

I read that and didn't comment in case I had missed something as well, but surely this is a far more noble aim than making them feel tricked or thick because they don't know how something is done. Entertainment is the only real purpose of magic skills, unless you get into the whole area of conning people into beieving you perform miracles.

nickj wrote:Entertainment is the only real purpose of magic skills...

People do not pay to see a magic show simlpy to be entertained. Similarly they do not pay to go to a concert simply to be entertained. People go to a magic show to see magic, and a concert to hear music.

I don't think it is as simple as just entertaining people. Yes, that is what we do but you are entertaining them in a specific way. For example, would a paying crowd be entertained if they had bought tickets to see a magic show and the magician stepped out onstage only to launch into a tap dance? Simply, no they would not be entertained because they have specific expectations. Tap dancing may be very entertaining but these people have come to see magic.

Similarly, if I were to approach a table in a restaurant and introduce my self as a magician, I have immediately set up the same expectations in the minds of my audience and even though they don't have the slightest clue about the tricks I'm about to perform for them, they do know that it will be "magic" ie if I do my job properly they will experience the impossible, if only for the slightest moment, and be fooled.

Also, you may be the most "entertaining" bloke in the world but if you perform rubbish magic, you will not entertain your audience.

However, anybody who has performed to anybody (ever) should know that to simply perform the mechanics of a trick well is not entertaining. You may fool your spectator but you haven't entertained them. This is where presentation comes in, and that is a whole other debate.

Having said all that, the bottom line is, as a magician, you cannot just entertain people and you cannot just fool people; there must be an equal measure of both. As you get better those measures should increase, but they must always be eqaul.

you cannot just entertain people and you cannot just fool people; there must be an equal measure of both.

Can't disagree more, in fact it clearly isn't true since I can watch and be entertained by a magician even when I know exactly how the trick is done.

Happy Toad wrote:

you cannot just entertain people and you cannot just fool people; there must be an equal measure of both.

Can't disagree more, in fact it clearly isn't true since I can watch and be entertained by a magician even when I know exactly how the trick is done.

It works the other way too - you can have a terrible magician doing Uncle Charlie card tricks. They fool the audience but definitely don't entertain them...

Kati

Happy Toad wrote:

you cannot just entertain people and you cannot just fool people; there must be an equal measure of both.

Can't disagree more, in fact it clearly isn't true since I can watch and be entertained by a magician even when I know exactly how the trick is done.

I totally agree and like you say, I can watch a performance, know how everything is done, but still be entertained. However, I would argue that this is a tottally different point. As magicians, we are appreciating the performance from a different point of view than a lay audience. We have an understanding of what, in theory, makes a good show and what doesn't. Therefore, when we see a "good" show we are entertained by it because we appreciate the effort, experience and quality of the show but a lay audience appreciates the show because they have seen good, entertaining magic.

But magic isn't designed to be performed for magicians. Why would you perform a trick to people who already know how it's done? Surely that defies the point of magic? Magic is a performance art for people who do not know how it's done.

katrielalex wrote:It works the other way too - you can have a terrible magician doing Uncle Charlie card tricks. They fool the audience but definitely don't entertain them...

Kati

...

Gold Fish wrote:However, anybody who has performed to anybody (ever) should know that to simply perform the mechanics of a trick well is not entertaining. You may fool your spectator but you haven't entertained them. This is where presentation comes in, and that is a whole other debate.