talkmagic.co.uk

Lord Freddie wrote:

ej16 wrote:

Lord Freddie wrote:An easier way of demonstrating mob mentality and how humans are not that far away from primate style agression is to go on a magic forum and praise Dynamo or mediums and you'll see it in action. You won't need third rate actors for this either.

Personally, I think Dynamo is awful. He is a massive show off. although the gimmicks he uses are good

Here's the proof that I can make an obvious point far quicker than Derren Brown can. No poor actors or stooges were used. No NLP or psychology was used.

So what your trying to say is that the gimmicks he uses are very powerful

Ooh, Freddie....you naughty lad; you used one, highly inflammatory trigger word:






Dynamo.

magicrob wrote:Ooh, Freddie....you naughty lad; you used one, highly inflammatory trigger word:






Dynamo.

Do you like dynamo?

ej16 wrote:
So what your trying to say is that the gimmicks he uses are very powerful

No I am saying that people's predictability is very powerful. Although I have managed, in about 73 minutes less than Derren did, prove the same very obvious point using a highly suggestable and oblivious specator. I can know fold my arms, do some silly head nods and look rather pleased with myself.

Well I guess your right. Am I the suggestable spectator........

ej16 wrote:Well I guess your right. Am I the suggestable spectator........

Work that one out...

I started to read this thread from the beginning but soon began to tire of everyone moaning about this and that.

No, he's not doing 'illusions', but I bet if he was still doing 'illusions' he'd be getting grief for that too. Derren started in magic as a card magician, I'd have thought he deserved kudos for constantly trying to do different things. Yes sometimes he falls flat on his butt, and Hero at 30,000 Feet and The Events were examples of that. Hero was like an X-Factor story without the singing.

However, I had the pleasure of watching the most recent experiment with someone who isn't a magician and doesn't really have an opinion on Brown. She was totally blown away by the show. Probably because she hadn't read a bunch of pop psychology books that featured pieces on crowd mentality so then thought she knew it all, and because she had no opinion about what she believes Derren should or shouldn't be be doing with his career. She doesn't have what I shall call and hereafter refer to as 'Dynamo Syndrome'. Its a nasty old thing, only affects magicians apparently.

She said to me afterwards that she felt uncomfortable for having watched it, I could see that it genuinely affected her. These are the people Derren is appealing to. Not you lot who claim you could do better. The time slot of his show used to be filled by Big Brother, one of Channel Four's ratings grabbers. He can't just appeal to the small community of magicians in this country, he needs to make water-cooler moments. I think, if you keep your ear to the ground, he's done just that with The Experiments.

As for me, I saw it more as an exercise in determinism. I could ask someone to go to the shops for me, they may get run over, but it was not a malevolent move on my part. Merely an accident. The audience would have the fact that its Derren, and the fact that its a TV show at the back of their minds. This would lead them to believe nothing could go wrong, that there is a safety net. This made the climax all the more shocking to them, and probably to many at home too.

nickj wrote:In the Game Show I was interested immediately that Derren Stressed to the TV audience that everything we would SEE for the next 50 minutes would be real; the stress hinted to me that what we were hearing may not be genuine. Either way, as pieces of entertainment I've enjoyed both of these shows and that's the only reason to watch them isn't it?

Yeah he said it twice which made it obvious something wasn't right about it, but that was revealed at the end when he pointed out the first 50 minutes were real then the rest of the show wasn't, i.e. the car crash scene with stunt double. Pay attention!

Grimshaw wrote:I started to read this thread from the beginning but soon began to tire of everyone moaning about this and that.

No, he's not doing 'illusions', but I bet if he was still doing 'illusions' he'd be getting grief for that too. Derren started in magic as a card magician, I'd have thought he deserved kudos for constantly trying to do different things. Yes sometimes he falls flat on his butt, and Hero at 30,000 Feet and The Events were examples of that. Hero was like an X-Factor story without the singing.

However, I had the pleasure of watching the most recent experiment with someone who isn't a magician and doesn't really have an opinion on Brown. She was totally blown away by the show. Probably because she hadn't read a bunch of pop psychology books that featured pieces on crowd mentality so then thought she knew it all, and because she had no opinion about what she believes Derren should or shouldn't be be doing with his career. She doesn't have what I shall call and hereafter refer to as 'Dynamo Syndrome'. Its a nasty old thing, only affects magicians apparently.

She said to me afterwards that she felt uncomfortable for having watched it, I could see that it genuinely affected her. These are the people Derren is appealing to. Not you lot who claim you could do better. The time slot of his show used to be filled by Big Brother, one of Channel Four's ratings grabbers. He can't just appeal to the small community of magicians in this country, he needs to make water-cooler moments. I think, if you keep your ear to the ground, he's done just that with The Experiments.

As for me, I saw it more as an exercise in determinism. I could ask someone to go to the shops for me, they may get run over, but it was not a malevolent move on my part. Merely an accident. The audience would have the fact that its Derren, and the fact that its a TV show at the back of their minds. This would lead them to believe nothing could go wrong, that there is a safety net. This made the climax all the more shocking to them, and probably to many at home too.

Agree largely with what you're saying. Because it's Derren there's an expectation from his followers and/or magicians. If it was just anyone presenting it would have just been what it was, and nothing more.

However I'd be worried if ALL of the audience genuinely thought 'nothing can go wrong so I'll just play a long and do the negative things' because how can anyone be sure nothing would go wrong? The very first option they chose could quite EASILY escalate into Kris headbutting the abusive and aggressive man he was faced with and all the other things could potentially gone a dangerous path too.

Sneak peak at Friday's experiment:

http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/11/trailer-derren-brown-guilt-trip-4th-nov/

This one looks quite interesting, hopefully better than the last.

Just watched the Gameshow episode, and found it thoroughly horrible.

The mob mentality aspect of the experiment didn't interest or engage me at all - I just found every aspect of the programme nasty.

It's probably the reason why I don't watch Saw movies or other offerings of that ilk, but they always seems to make enough money to spawn a million sequels, spin-offs and cash-ins.

Neither impressed nor disappointed. Just ick.

Pete

I also love how Derren has used the 'apply to take part in my gameshow' for the last 3 years..... surely people should know better by now

Grimshaw wrote: These are the people Derren is appealing to. Not you lot who claim you could do better.

Ah, the old 'he doesn't make shows for magicians so you're not allowed an opinion' gambit ... truly the Godwin's law of internet magic forums.

nameless wrote:

Grimshaw wrote: These are the people Derren is appealing to. Not you lot who claim you could do better.

Ah, the old 'he doesn't make shows for magicians so you're not allowed an opinion' gambit ... truly the Godwin's law of internet magic forums.

Plus you daren't voice an opinion other than "this is wonderful!!! Wow!!!" because it's Derren...

To be fair, we've seen a lot of posts on TM where the sun doesn't always shine out of Derren's, er, perfomances. As long as the comments are reasonable and honestly held there's no problem with opinions which don't echo the mainstream view. In fact, it would be intresting to hear the basic reasons why such opinions are held, other than not liking his beard and so on ! Of course, the same applies to his ardent fans here.