talkmagic.co.uk

I met a young man yesterday who was introduced to me because he has an interest in magic. I asked him what magic he did and was suprised to hear him reel off an immense list of tricks that he knew.

As we got deeper into our conversation I realised that his knowledge consisted of having watched video clips (media player, quicktime, etc.) of tricks and also watching clips that showed how the trick was done.

Some of these came from sites run by companies, others had been posted as pure disclosure by individulas it seemed. I came back and had a quick look and was shocked to find out how much disclosure the internet and video clips provided and how freely it was available.

I have been in discussions wehere people wished there were less magic shops, books, etc. because of the disclosure aspects but these videos are potentially quite damaging and there's no code of conduct, little integrity in dissemination of the material and no conscience when it comes to people passing the clips on.

Naivé, I probably am, but this is potentially damaging to magic - so why do these people do it?

I understand the financial gain aspect from some of the companies who exist to transmit this stuff at a price, but the others?

Vic

Agreed, we here at Illusionist UK are trying to stop the use of free ticks online, we all feel that this is not right and secrets of such a gift should not be given out at random for free.

Now were not talking about French drops or hanky panky tricks we are talking big ticks that people are using to get people to visit there’s sites etc, this is not right.

I personally feel that only true magicians who are in it for the job should be able to but magic, like a trade.

And as a company we are trying to get all these people and explain what there doing wrong. We need to remember that magic is defiantly not something to be abused; it’s a gift that is not to be misused.

Thanks Hawk,

Think your views are encouraging ion the extreme. It's a pity that so many people equate being a magician with knowing how tricks are done and yet often the same people, having discovered the secrets, can't even be bothered to learn (and practice) them afterwards.

It's good to hear your views on this. Now where's the rest of the magical world?

Thanks,

Vic

I think, judging by the times that I'm asked that there are vasts amount of people who wouldn't know where to look for magic, despite the internet. How many lay people really would think of doing an internet search?

There is still a perception amongst lay people that you have to be taught magic.

On magic shops, there should be more and not less! Magic shops are not about disclosure (none that I've come into contact with anyway) and those who use shops and benefit from them will hopefully agree with this.

The people that we perhaps need to worry the most about when it comes to disclosure are those in our own community. In every walk of life you will have the good and the bad - and those time served TM members will have certainly seen a few of the bad.

Were not talking about just shops, please re read, this is about throwing magic away for free. This is not acceptable and anyone who beleives magic is somthing we should mis-use should re consider doing it, this is a gift and if you dont use it properly dont use it at all.

We should not give magic away for nothing.

Can't agree more about the shops. I have learnt from shops and reckon it's still the best value for money way of getting magic, especially as I've been advised away from trick and pointed to other which served me better.

Even here, on TM, there have been theads where people have put price before the benefits of shops (have a look at some of the stuff I've written on it and you'll see I'm very much pro shops).

How do we educate those who do magic and those who want to do magic. I reckon DVd and video isn't the way. I'm firmly coming to the view that books bring with them an interpretation and therefore an individual performance of the trick. DVDs leave us with clones who do tricks the same, use the same presentation and patter at best and as a worst case scenario - leaving us with people who know everything except how to do the tricks.

Come on guys, encourage those coming in to join clubs, use shops and get into magic which is a community rather than an individual, do it alone, hobby,

Vic

Hi Hawk - I know that you're not just talking about shops and I totally agree that magic should not be given away. However, I was answering a comment made about shops in the thread and stating that they don't give magic away. It's not financially viable for them to do so anyway

Vic - you've hit the nail on the head in going towards clubs and shops.

I don't think that major tricks should be posted on the internet for free. But I see no harm in posting something simple like a basic colour change. And I am hugely infavour of video learning. There are to many times where I have read an effect or trick or slights in a book and not been able to properly understand what is going on because the author did a poor job of explaining it. However with videos I have never run into this problem, although it is still possible. I live out in the middle of nowhere and the nearest magic shop is over 200 miles away. Ordering whatever instructional DVD I want over the internet gives me the excperince of getting involved in magic without having to make ardous treks across frozen tundra. And as for the argument that you get clones with video teaching I disagree. Every one will take the tricks and use them in thier own routine, and if the video gives some ideas and patter for how to nutralize suspicion or introduce an effect then what is the problem?

I know what you're saying and don't totally disagree. There are a few considerations:

1. One person's 'basic' is another's 'interemediate' or even perhaps 'advanced'. The classification is quite subjective and liable to wide variance and probable disagreement,

2. 'Teasers' are a great way of getting sales - show one trick, without the working, that attracts and excites and you're on the way to getting a sale,

3. If you have get the dogs out so you can cross the frozen pack ice, negotiate crevasse and avoid avalanches then I can understandthe views more. Most of those I've met who are like the young person I encountered at the beginning of this thread who live within an hour and a half maximum of a multiple number of shops and many, many, many (Damn - it's the Police Academy bug again!) clubs where they could learn from 'people'. Odd concept I know, after all magic ought to be done in darkened rooms but pasty-faced, sad individuals (like me ) and shown to no one,

4. There is a place for video clips and perhaps some disclosure sites are helpful. I really really not sure on this because for many, knowledge of working is the goal not practice and polished performance. Show as many tricks as possible, sell videos of the working -that's called business.

Disclosure for the hell of it, or because we're serving magic by attracting others to it, for once they know the moves they too will become magicians is a flawed concept - it doesn't aid magic - it effectively kills it.

Sorry so long,

Vic

I don't think it's main purpose is exposure, as someone mentioned how many lay people are going to start searching for tricks and tips or take the time to download a video clip of some one explianing card in mouth?

I find it help full, can you ask yourself honestly that you have never down loaded a film or free porn. Because the people who take the time to make films get angry at people who download. (I'm side tracking)

I love magic, i admit seeing certain people do it, it is abit quear, and the price of learning magic doesn't come free, so been able to down load magic tutorial avi files after payin loads for vhs (i dont have video player anymore) makes me feel i can learn something new without spending a fortune. Even if someone knows how a trick is done, it doesn't matter. If you can perform it well you can still baffle them