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Me and a friend have been working on an effect involving large blades (like a saw or a butcher knife), but have no idea about the laws of using such a prop in, say, a bar or some small stage. We live in the UK (Northern Ireland, specifically). Do we need a license or something? Or just permission from where the show is taking place?

Are these sharp (ie, could they be used as a weapon)?

If not, I'd suggest that you shouldn't have any problems.

If yo have any concerns, however, you should contact the central Police Station, nearest to your gig, make them aware of what you are carrying, and its intended use, and GET A REFERENCE NUMBER!

If there *are* any problems on the day, you can then refer back to this contact, and avoid any potential legal hassles.

You can legally carry a knife/sword/blade as long as its part of your trade and it's necessary that you need to transport it to or from your place of work. (ie. you can't just constantly leave them in a car all the time)

They should be suitably wrapped or packaged during transport and ideally in the boot or rear of your vehicle so that they are not readily available should you become involved in any moments of spontaneous rage.

As in regards to performing, I'm not sure about the law where you perform but just as kebab shops are allowed large knives to Perform their work, so are you. It should be a case of the owner of the venue having the correct entertainments insurance.

Call the Police on 101 (the new non emergency telephone number) and seek further advice.

Alec

Cheers for the advice guys.

The blade doesn't need to be sharp (so it probably wont be), and we're still a while away from actually performing it, but it's good to know. Can you suggest any websites that would have specific details of what's ok and what isn't?

This is all good advice, however, I'm under the impression that by having the blade in a public place you may still be arrestable! However, as you'd be having the thing for work purposes, you'd have an excuse for having it, so it'd be pretty harsh to get arrested for it.

Certainly, as Alec and Rob have said, call 101 to get more info, and to underline this, get a reference number... better yet, advise them if you're going to a specific gig so that if you're stopped you really are prepared! Also talk to your local police station. Again, I'm told that the laws in Northern Ireland as to what's acceptable in these things may be a little different to London...

Hope this helps. I take no responsibility for any actions taken on reliance on this advice.

Extract from s. 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988

139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place
(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.

According to Halsbury's Laws of England, 'for use at work' is a matter for the jury to decide and does not require judicial definition.

Alec Kobain wrote:You can legally carry a knife/sword/blade as long as its part of your trade and it's necessary that you need to transport it to or from your place of work. (ie. you can't just constantly leave them in a car all the time)

They should be suitably wrapped or packaged during transport and ideally in the boot or rear of your vehicle so that they are not readily available should you become involved in any moments of spontaneous rage.

As in regards to performing, I'm not sure about the law where you perform but just as kebab shops are allowed large knives to Perform their work, so are you. It should be a case of the owner of the venue having the correct entertainments insurance.

Call the Police on 101 (the new non emergency telephone number) and seek further advice.

Alec

So, (asking for no particular reason) if you are an axe wielding murderer, can you then carry one wherever you go seeing as it is part of your trade?

I believe here in USA you are limited by the size of the blade. Of course I live in Red Neck central and everyone ownes a gun. Of course almost everyone also hunts around here. I'm not sure of the sport when you are hunting with say and AK47. And I'm certainly not a hunter but I don't think a barretta Nine mil makes a good hunting weapon either. But they got 'em. It is odd being a non-gun wielding Canadian, non hunter, not in the least bit interested in NASCAR racing and yet living in the 'mountains' of Pennsylvania.

artychris wrote:This is all good advice, however, I'm under the impression that by having the blade in a public place you may still be arrestable! However, as you'd be having the thing for work purposes, you'd have an excuse for having it, so it'd be pretty harsh to get arrested for it.

Certainly, as Alec and Rob have said, call 101 to get more info, and to underline this, get a reference number... better yet, advise them if you're going to a specific gig so that if you're stopped you really are prepared! Also talk to your local police station. Again, I'm told that the laws in Northern Ireland as to what's acceptable in these things may be a little different to London...

bmat wrote:

Alec Kobain wrote:You can legally carry a knife/sword/blade as long as its part of your trade and it's necessary that you need to transport it to or from your place of work. (ie. you can't just constantly leave them in a car all the time)

They should be suitably wrapped or packaged during transport and ideally in the boot or rear of your vehicle so that they are not readily available should you become involved in any moments of spontaneous rage.

As in regards to performing, I'm not sure about the law where you perform but just as kebab shops are allowed large knives to Perform their work, so are you. It should be a case of the owner of the venue having the correct entertainments insurance.

Call the Police on 101 (the new non emergency telephone number) and seek further advice.

Alec

So, (asking for no particular reason) if you are an axe wielding murderer, can you then carry one wherever you go seeing as it is part of your trade?

I believe here in USA you are limited by the size of the blade. Of course I live in Red Neck central and everyone ownes a gun. Of course almost everyone also hunts around here. I'm not sure of the sport when you are hunting with say and AK47. And I'm certainly not a hunter but I don't think a barretta Nine mil makes a good hunting weapon either. But they got 'em. It is odd being a non-gun wielding Canadian, non hunter, not in the least bit interested in NASCAR racing and yet living in the 'mountains' of Pennsylvania.

The advice given here regarding bladed or pointed object covers most areas but there are just a couple of points that maybe useful to know.

1.) there is a defense that you may not be guilty of an offence if you use the article in the course of your work. However you have to be at you place of work or travelling to or from it. That would include a place to practice your act. But you cant keep it with you just in case you might need it to perform and you cane keep it in your car. There is an example that I remember from my training which was of a a young girl who was stopped coming out of a nightclub with a pair of scissors in her hand bag. She was stopped and searched these were found. She used the defense that she was a hair dresser and she had put them in her bag to take home and had gone out straight from work. She was found guilty. Even if you have a reason to carry the item and you get stopped you could still get arrested and eventually charged because you are still potentially guilty of the offence and the defense may have to be given at court.. That is the worse case scenario. Contacting the police prior to your show is good also if you have a letter confirming you appointment carry that with you. Also you are likely to have other magic items with you. The more evidence you have with you to show you are a magician the better. Most cops are more likely to ask you to show them a trick.

2.One other point that is just for general interest is regarding to folding knives. You can carry a folding pocket knife with a cutting edge of less than 3inch. There is an exception to this and that is if the blade locks out, then the length of the cutting edge is irrelevant you are guilty of committing the offence. The reason I mention this is many people have leathermans and they have a locking blade which makes them an offensive weapon, yet they are readily available and carried by members of the public and many cops.

3. There are some items that are sometimes used by performers mainly acts based on martial arts that use weapons/items that are on the same list as locking blades.

I hope this is helpful

Nic

Life must be very difficult for professional knife throwers.....

After all this... you have to tell us!!!

What's the routine you've put together???

hmmm... silence.

Maybe the routine didn't go so well...