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I'm after a box (or in fact two boxes) that could be opened to show a big wad of £20 notes, or not, depending on if the audience member has chosen said box. I'm sure you all get the idea of the effect. Basically one box will contain nothing the other the money or vice versa.
I'm aware that smoke and mirrors make some lovely billet switching boxes although from the impression I get (and I may be wrong here) a wad of money about 1cm thick would probably be be more than their boxes can take.
Anyone know if their is anything on the market that will fit these purposes or will this need to be a custom job?
Thanks, Ed

Buy most any elementary Magic Kit and you'll find the solution; it's usually called a "Magic Drawer Box" in that it can be filled with tons of stuff while being shown empty and vice versa; after being seen empty, you can produce a butt load of stuff from it. There are some that are quite nice, handmade wood. . . I think Stevens Magic in the U.S. had an exclusive on them for some time but you may also check with Viking Mfg. in that they can make something of the same sort that would meet your needs.

Yes, there are other methods that might work, but the Drawer Box is going to be the simplest and probably cleanest method.

I do have a magic drawer (one of the nice wooden ones) and considered the use of it but there is something about it that looks just a little too magical for my liking. Where in the real world do you ever see a small drawer by itself? I want a plain box that opens with the lid at the top.
I appreciate that the simplest answer would be to use envelopes and have one that contains a cheque but for reasons that are long and tedious I'm playing around with using boxes instead.

I have never used one of these boxes, but judging from the film, a pair of them would suit your aims perfectly (bit expensive, though!):

http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/Magicia ... i23605.asp

Very cute prop (good looking as well) but I'd like to see someone else perform it, in that I think I saw something that's a detractor to things. . . at least for me.

As to the Drawer Box not having the right "look" why can't you change the facade? I have one big one that's just an ornate box and two that are literally match boxes I use for a seance routine in which a transposition takes place. . . being simple, cardboard match boxes they are both, ordinary and seen as being "innocent". . . how could they possibly be a magic prop?

Magicians over think things sometimes; we complicate the solution by not seeing the potential resting just outside the edge of what we've been conditioned to believe to be the "limit" of a particular device. I've pointed out several times how the long ignored Topsy Turvey fulcrum floored prop designers when Harrary used it for his Janet Box effect and since, has been used by several as the key to their "new" innovations. The Drawer Box is the same kind of item; we have ignored its potential for generations because we've bought into the idea that it only does "this", failing to see how it can do so much more just by changing the facade and presentation.

You are right about using old props in new ways, Craig.

I suppose that there is a small risk that people will recognise even a very good quality drawer box as a relative of the cheap plastic sort you see in magic sets, especially if you use it in the way those sets tell you. The matchbox ones sound great, because they are exactly the right way of concealing the prop and, by using them for a transposition, rather than an appearance or vanish, people with a little knowledge are less likely to make the connection. In Ed's case, he's also not using it as a magical vanish or production, so I think it could work.

I did some digging around and I am not sure that the Mikame box is going to be any better than the Smoke & Mirrors box. It's basically a card case (although the video does suggest it can load a fair amount). Generally good reviews at the Magic Café (if you rightly ignore the fact that it cannot be left for half an hour with a spectator): http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 56&forum=8

I also found the two videos referred to in the thread, but these use it merely as a card case, so won't help.

I was at my nephews 5th birthday party on Friday at which there was a magician. He used a drawer box, a big wooden one. One of the Dads standing next to me as soon as he saw the box described exactly how it worked. Unfortunately I believe the workings of these boxes are public knowledge and in my opinion could not be used for a serious performance.
The Mikame box looks lovely but as part timer has said there doesn't seem to be that much difference to the smoke and mirrors box regarding load. I think if I persue this idea I may need a something custom made.

Ed Wood wrote:I was at my nephews 5th birthday party on Friday at which there was a magician. He used a drawer box, a big wooden one. One of the Dads standing next to me as soon as he saw the box described exactly how it worked. Unfortunately I believe the workings of these boxes are public knowledge and in my opinion could not be used for a serious performance.
The Mikame box looks lovely but as part timer has said there doesn't seem to be that much difference to the smoke and mirrors box regarding load. I think if I persue this idea I may need a something custom made.

TT is also public knowledge. Just about every method out there has been exposed. Again it all goes to the performance. Even if they know before the box is even touched, a good performer can make the lay person question.

However back to the question. How about a change bag? And you can make one out of a paper bag so it doesn't look like a prop. Depending on the routine a mirror box may work, Just remember they open two ways. There are also some large watch boxes that would work, but you would have to load or unload them.

Does the money in question need to be rolled up? If not a spring loaded crystal casket..or two in your case could also work.

Just some thoughts.

bmat wrote:

Ed Wood wrote:I was at my nephews 5th birthday party on Friday at which there was a magician. He used a drawer box, a big wooden one. One of the Dads standing next to me as soon as he saw the box described exactly how it worked. Unfortunately I believe the workings of these boxes are public knowledge and in my opinion could not be used for a serious performance.
The Mikame box looks lovely but as part timer has said there doesn't seem to be that much difference to the smoke and mirrors box regarding load. I think if I persue this idea I may need a something custom made.

TT is also public knowledge. Just about every method out there has been exposed. Again it all goes to the performance. Even if they know before the box is even touched, a good performer can make the lay person question.

However back to the question. How about a change bag? And you can make one out of a paper bag so it doesn't look like a prop. Depending on the routine a mirror box may work, Just remember they open two ways. There are also some large watch boxes that would work, but you would have to load or unload them.

Does the money in question need to be rolled up? If not a spring loaded crystal casket..or two in your case could also work.

Just some thoughts.

Whilst the TT is public knowledge it's a very different thing. If the performance goes to plan no one will ever see the TT. In this case a strong performance will negate the use of such an obvious prop. With the drawer box it's there for everyone to see and if anyone has ever seen one they will know exactly how it works. I think we need to credit our audience with a little more intelligence, even if only a few people are familiar with the workings it can destroy the effect.
A change bag would work as would envelopes in which the load can be switched but I wanted something a little more hands off.
Yes the money can be rolled, in fact I would prefer it this way. What is this crystal casket you refer to?

I assume that bmat is thinking of this sort of thing: http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/Crystal ... i14850.asp

You can get nice wooden framed ones too (often used with sponge balls).

I believe that a well-known mentalist used something similar in one of his shows (which might put you off). I suspect you might need to do a little bit more to get the cash to look right, but bmat can probably give you some pointers.

Part-Timer wrote:I assume that bmat is thinking of this sort of thing: http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/Crystal ... i14850.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank

You can get nice wooden framed ones too (often used with sponge balls).

I believe that a well-known mentalist used something similar in one of his shows (which might put you off). I suspect you might need to do a little bit more to get the cash to look right, but bmat can probably give you some pointers.

Aahhh, I'm with you now. These are great but the use by the certain well known mentalist you mention puts me off a little. I was thinking of using boxes as opposed to envelopes for this due to the very same chap doing something very similar with envelopes. It can be rather frustrating at times trying to come up with anything even remotely original in such a narrow genre as mentalism with Derren knocking out a new show every two years that seems to embody practically every imaginable routine. I once spent about two years working on a routine based on the Berglass effect ESPacology, just when I was ready to perform it Derren did his version in his show!!

Ed Wood wrote:

Part-Timer wrote:I assume that bmat is thinking of this sort of thing: http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/Crystal ... i14850.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

You can get nice wooden framed ones too (often used with sponge balls).

I believe that a well-known mentalist used something similar in one of his shows (which might put you off). I suspect you might need to do a little bit more to get the cash to look right, but bmat can probably give you some pointers.

Aahhh, I'm with you now. These are great but the use by the certain well known mentalist you mention puts me off a little. I was thinking of using boxes as opposed to envelopes for this due to the very same chap doing something very similar with envelopes. It can be rather frustrating at times trying to come up with anything even remotely original in such a narrow genre as mentalism with Derren knocking out a new show every two years that seems to embody practically every imaginable routine. I once spent about two years working on a routine based on the Berglass effect ESPacology, just when I was ready to perform it Derren did his version in his show!!

The entire field of magic is very narrow and hard to come up with original material, which is why it comes down to performance. Yes those are the boxes I was talking about. The bills would have to be loaded flat. These boxes work best with spring flowers because the blooms pack flat and when released they bloom open quickly. Hard to get that effect with bills. When the bills finally do appear they will be lying flat in the box, so you would have to work around that. I'm just tossing out ideas.

As far as the Drawer box goes. They are used today and still the audience has no idea what they are or how they work. You can also build them into something else if you are worried. Chances are your audience has not seen magic performed anyway.