talkmagic.co.uk

Actually, most of the people that replied to this thread are regular performers.

You have had some reasoned responses but have not been told what you want to hear. I think if you read your original post, it wasn't phrased particularly well and seemed designed to provoke.

The reason why magicians have a bad reputation is because many of them have a huge ego and overinflated self importance which makes them think they are superior to everyone who can't make a card rise to the top the deck. Your initial post enhances this reputation.

The way your first post was phrased indicates a loathing for the psychic world, so I can't understand why you would wish to work in the field. Why not use your incredible powers to convince people you're a Vicar? You'd get a lovely outfit and a house thrown into the bargain.

Aza wrote:People have a free choice as to whether they wish to believe and attend, nobody forces them to part with their cash for me.

In all seriousness, grief will cause people to do that. So will despair.

Lord Freddie wrote:Actually, most of the people that replied to this thread are regular performers.

You have had some reasoned responses but have not been told what you want to hear. I think if you read your original post, it wasn't phrased particularly well and seemed designed to provoke.

The reason why magicians have a bad reputation is because many of them have a huge ego and overinflated self importance which makes them think they are superior to everyone who can't make a card rise to the top the deck. Your initial post enhances this reputation.

The way your first post was phrased indicates a loathing for the psychic world, so I can't understand why you would wish to work in the field. Why not use your incredible powers to convince people you're a Vicar? You'd get a lovely outfit and a house thrown into the bargain.

Perhaps my original post wasn't phrased too well Lord Freddie, but as i have previously stated, i wanted this to be a discussion and not an insult contest.

And there are many magicians i know who are very humble and do not have superiority complexes, but are some of the nicest people i have ever met.

On the flip side of this i have met many "readers/psychics" who prey on people's emotional vulnerabilities to make money and they are some of the most egotistical people i have ever met in my life.

I also understand that there are some comments made by regular performers, but when insults are thrown for no real reason other than to establish superiority (i can't see any other reason for degenerating into calling somebody a numpty for having a differing opinion) then it strikes me that the person throwing insults has some major issues with insecurity and feels that they must bring the person down, in my opinion....

And the reason i was looking to venture into this field was for the purposes of entertainment, nothing else, but as per usual my standing here seems to be that I'm not too popular on the message boards and i am fast getting bored of being insulted, people have been informed of my credentials time and time again, but that seems to go by the wayside and i get insulted every step of the way!

No wonder youngsters starting out give up and magic is a dying art!

My first point of advice to any new magician would be do not join an internet forum, you'll only regret ever asking a question

And Tomo, you are right as usual!

You can treat the people that come for a reading as people who need someone independent to listen and offer some advice and the abstraction of the tarot (other oracles are available) gives you the distance to help them or you can treat them as a idiots for believing and beneath your contempt for being so weak as to need such help. Either way you get paid, it's your choice how you feel.

Heckler wrote:You can treat the people that come for a reading as people who need someone independent to listen and offer some advice and the abstraction of the tarot (other oracles are available) gives you the distance to help them or you can treat them as a idiots for believing and beneath your contempt for being so weak as to need such help. Either way you get paid, it's your choice how you feel.

I wouldn't bother Heckler it's already gone downhill.....

Pointless to continue with this thread, Tomo and Stephen predicted correctly....

Mods, wanna come lock this one up?

The thing is Aza, if you ask for things in the right way then people would be willing to help you or discuss things in a more informative way but you asked in a confrontational way by insulting the field and then claiming to want to make money from it.

I know you'll take this thr wrong way (again) but I think you have a false perception of much of the psychic world which implies that you haven't been around it or looked into it much. Many readings aren't an attempt to talk to Uncle Harry but are based around romantic or career issues and if a reading is uplifting and makes people feel hopeful then you have done the job well. As I said, it's a kind of 'cosmic counseller'.

Again, if you look into the field, most seances aren't attempts to connect grieving people with their loved ones but more of an investigation to contact the spirits that lived and worked in the building/area.

If you do a little more research before sounding off, you'll find things aren't as clear cut as they seem. If you are genuinely interested in this area, then experience it. If it's really not for you then stick with what you are doing now.

Lord Freddie wrote: Many readings aren't an attempt to talk to Uncle Harry but are based around romantic or career issues and if a reading is uplifting and makes people feel hopeful then you have done the job well. As I said, it's a kind of 'cosmic counseller'.
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Well put.

Lord Freddie wrote:The thing is Aza, if you ask for things in the right way then people would be willing to help you or discuss things in a more informative way but you asked in a confrontational way by insulting the field and then claiming to want to make money from it.

I know you'll take this thr wrong way (again) but I think you have a false perception of much of the psychic world which implies that you haven't been around it or looked into it much. Many readings aren't an attempt to talk to Uncle Harry but are based around romantic or career issues and if a reading is uplifting and makes people feel hopeful then you have done the job well. As I said, it's a kind of 'cosmic counseller'.

Again, if you look into the field, most seances aren't attempts to connect grieving people with their loved ones but more of an investigation to contact the spirits that lived and worked in the building/area.

If you do a little more research before sounding off, you'll find things aren't as clear cut as they seem. If you are genuinely interested in this area, then experience it. If it's really not for you then stick with what you are doing now.

Perhaps my original post was a bit too confrontational Lord Freddie and for that i apologise, maybe you'll be so kind as to allow me to pick your brains in the future...

Aza wrote:

mrz0mbie wrote:

Aza wrote:i understand that morally it is wrong to exploit people etc. but.........

Much love

Aza

But what? I'm dying to hear you justify exploiting people

Well my justification would be as follows:

People have a free choice as to whether they wish to believe and attend, nobody forces them to part with their cash for me.

So you justify exploiting people by saying its their choice to go and see you?

Aza wrote:On the flip side of this i have met many "readers/psychics" who prey on people's emotional vulnerabilities to make money and they are some of the most egotistical people i have ever met in my life.

But people are forced to go and see these egotistical readers? It wasn't a free choice like it would be to go and see you?

As Tomo pointed out if you're grieving or emotionally unstable you'll do things like oh I don't know....reach out to a psychic, after all, it's your choice to do so.

But these guys are baddies and you're not, right?

OK folks, we've let this go on longer than usual in the rather vain hope that specific comments and advice would be taken for what they are - intended to help, even if they aren't what anyone wanted to hear.

I assume we're all reasonably intelligent adults so can we step back a bit, take a deep breath or two and try to see where this thread can be of actual use? I'd hate to see this thread locked like so many others have been locked as there's actually a lot of very useful advice for anyone considering this sort of activity - and don't forget that much of this advice comes from people who actually earn a crust or two by following such advice and learning the hard way. It needs hardly be said that such advice is being given free of charge by people who can command a significant price for this advice elsewhere.

Any psychic who does things properly would point emotionally distraught people in the direction of the Samaritains or suchlike. Psychics are not the hand-rubbing, greedy fraudsters that people assume they are. There are guidelines in place (which many follow) so when dealing with someone who would benefit from a different kind of help, they are advised to go in that direction.

The irony of the whole situation is that magicians seem dead set in taking the 'real' magic from people's lives. What people choose to believe in is up to them and doesn't bother me unless it causes people distress. People find comfort in what suits them best. There are those that feel better after attending church, those that feel comforted after talking to a psychic...people have different ways of dealing with things and some people choose to have a reading.

If the reader is a good one then the person who has CHOSEN to use their services will go away feeling optimist, uplifted and that their problems aren't as bad as they seem. How is that fleecing someone? I think the reason why magicians hate readers so much is because something like a decent, uplifting reading from a GOOD psychic has for more impact and is far more memorable than a card trick.

At seances most of us will steer people away from thinking they will talk to relatives, instead the seances normally involve a spirit(s) that has a connection to the area or building and is unknown to the guests. I NEVER NEVER give medical, money or legal advice.

Aza wrote:
Perhaps my original post was a bit too confrontational Lord Freddie and for that i apologise, maybe you'll be so kind as to allow me to pick your brains in the future...

It did have a touch of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" about it.

The whole area of psychic abilities tends to get people very polarised. I have had a discussion on another forum which was able to be civil and the individuals involved were able to agree to disagree about certain points and agree that people using others' grief in order to make money was wrong.

I have no idea whether psychic abilities are possible, I know that in 40 years on this earth I have not seen anything to prove to me that they are. That doesn't mean they are not but I feel they are implausible in terms of what we know at the moment. I'm not about to get in a discussion on this board as it would not be appropriate and as I say I have had this discussion many times with individuals who are well able to argue their case (hello Craig!) and I have enjoyed the cut and thrust and civility of that discussion.

If the original question was should I do show themed around psychic abilities and would this be moral. Then the answer should be yes. Playing the part of psychic for entertainment is fine.

Readings on the other hand require a sincerity (imho) and If that isn't there it becomes immoral - again all my humble opinion.

I don't like seances and am not enamoured of mediumship and like to keep away from such activities. I should also like to point out to the original poster that there are TWO types of psychic readings and perhaps that hasn't been made clear in this thread. There are the serious readings which are reasonably lengthy and delve into people's troubles and worries. From the tone of Aza's original post it seems to me that he should keep well away from this type of session as he would not be comfortable with it and in any event you cannot possibly do this kind of reading and tell them that it is all nonsense and just for "entertainment". And of course this type of reading is much more difficult to do and takes a lot of work and study along with an intuitive sensitivity and compassion for people.

However, he may possibly adapt quite well to the second type of reading which for better words can be termed "entertainment readings". These are generally very short sessions lasting no more than ten minutes or so and often only around 5 minutes. These do not predict the future or get into the client's problems and worries. They are often character analysis sessions and thus avoid many of the ethical implications of the more serious sessions. And of course they are far easier to do. And best of all quite high fees can be made from them because you can be hired by an agent or a company to do readings in a quiet corner. You are paid by the booker rather than the client.

I would recommend Richard Webster's "Quick and Effective Cold Reading" which covers these short sessions using palmistry. Or of course my own products which are on DVD. Some of the members here were present at my seminar in London explaining these matters. You should not purchase anything to do with the Tarot from me as these deal with serious sessions which you are clearly not suited for. However, I do have DVDs on Chinese Numerology and Palmistry for sale which are ideal for short entertainment sessions and you can contact me by private message if you are interested.