"Psychic Abilities"

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Re: "Psychic Abilities"

Postby The4thCircle » Sep 12th, '12, 17:34



Lord Freddie wrote:The irony of the whole situation is that magicians seem dead set in taking the 'real' magic from people's lives.


I was thinking about this exact thing the other day. I was watching an except from a past EMC when Ava Do said that you should find out as much as you can about your audience before performing because telling a spectator which hand they're holding a coin in or what card they're thinking of might pale in comparison to the intimate details their psychic can divulge.

I met a guy at a computer graphics conference in LA who started talking about transcending the physical and telling me about the n-diensional out of body journeys he went on with his spiritualist and I thought at the time there is probably no magician in the land who could come close to impressing the guy, because he's seen better magic in his head than would be possible in the hands of even the most skilled performer.

-Stacy

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Re: "Psychic Abilities"

Postby Craig Browning » Sep 12th, '12, 17:42

Lot's of great replies and my suggestion is to LISTEN to people like Mark Lewis, whose been working in the psychic side of things for decades vs. the relative and generally skeptical newcomers .

As Freddie and others have pointed out, Magicians do tend to get this ego thing rolling that makes them believe they know it all and worse, that anything unusual "must be fake". We're talking about the sort of people that took apart all their toys just to see how they worked when they were kids; it's our nature to seek out an answer and when we can't find one that is satisfying, we'll make one up. The older we get the more we try wrapping our "explanations" into more and more believable or "rational" blankets such as "science" the fastest growing religion in much of the world presently.

Long before I every got involved with Mentalism I did private Readings for people (since I was 16), it is something I was exposed to growing up in that certain grandparents and other relatives practiced everything from the Laying of Hands styled healing work to Readings, Dowsing, and making up home remedies and protections. So I have a natural bias when it comes to such things; I've seen them work and experienced some very amazing things as a Reader. The most important fact being that very, very few Readers are in it for the money e.g. those that are, are the one's to watch when it comes to questionable tactics. Not all that are successful in this world are crooks, mind you, but generally speaking the majority of those that you find hustling the consumer are.

But we have a problem here. . . what I look at as being "legit" is frequently looked down upon by the Magic Community (skeptics) because they consider it a form of chicanery. . . even using the structure found in things like Numerology is seen by some as "cheating" because there are psychological connections to numbers that mirror what's been used for centuries, possible even thousands of years depending on which system you rely on. To me, layering a Reading or Report with perspectives found in a person numbers and zodiac and even their hand writing is perfectly honest in that you are using the tools of the trade. . . even when we look at the psychological profiles tied to the human face and body design, we are using natural existing factors that have been used for thousands of years both, by mystics as well as the average human being (though, subconsciously).

What if I were to toss in a Pendulum or Billet?

Ron Martin in his Tarot Reader's Notebook recommends a Pendulum when you find things "stressed" or "blocked" between you and the client. You're not using trickery and while they MAY BE certain analytical explanations around the how & why of Pendulums, there still exists a level of subtle influence that lays outside said claims. Like most of things spiritual and mystical, it does not work like a trained animal or on human whim; but that's where faith comes in and that's the big rub -- cynics rarely have faith let alone the willingness to accept the power of such.

Even if I were to use a billet or some other mode of deliberate trickery so as to discover the issue a client is dealing with, it does not mean that the Reading details are false, only that I'm able to offer a more concise feedback; in the case of a legit Reader using such a cheat, it's typically because the patron is stone walling them either deliberately or because they are that shut-down by life and personal depression. In order to help the client, they must accomplish two things; trigger the mind of the shut-down patron so as to establish an connection, which comes by way of accuracy i.e. conveying insight around the issue (the cheat). This then opens the client up with a willingness to establish rapport with the Reader and PARTICIPATE in the session. Yes, it's a bit underhanded but not always done for the sake of personal ego on the part of the Reader, not the goal of manipulating the client regularly. In this instance we're talking about breaking the ice in order to HELP the patron. . . including the act of pointing them toward professional help. Something most of the better Readers I know, willingly do. We know we aren't qualified to carry a person with deep problems, so we urge them to seek professional medical care when it comes to issues of depression or even fantastic processing.

The Criminal Side of the psychic thing comes by way of those who exploit their patrons, what I call "Anna Riva Psychics" in that they make a Psychic diagnosis that typically entails some sort of curse and then sell the patron all kinds of over-priced rituals for getting rid of the curse only to find a newer, more potent curse or some other such darkness that will require more cash, etc. I've dealt with this type many times and helped authorities when it comes to either bringing them to justice or at least, getting them out of town. Most such operators are literally "Family" operations that operate in a manner similar to what is outlined in the book "The Psychic Mafia" (Lamar Keene). But when it comes to the real world workers, the majority of us are simple, modest and quite giving individuals; Ron Martin's book mentioned earlier, will give you a very accurate picture as to how things are really done in our world; especially when it comes to those of us that know about the trickery and its potential.

Speaking of which. . . you will hear very little in way of positive note when it comes to people within Mentalism that do Readings, it's just something most loathe to speak about because of the assholiness it brings out in others. Recently however there have been some books hit the scene that deal with those of us that work in both world, all three credited to a man named Neal Scryer and published by Richard Webster. Again, you will see how trickery is used in the industry as well as the very real way we work. Other sources include the materials put out by Bill Montana, Jerome Finley and the team of Larry Baukin and Ron Martin . . . there's actually a very long list in that Mentalism prior to the mid-1990s involved Reading work at a far more extensive level and on the more legit side of things. Learning to do an effect Cradle to the Grave type Reading was a standard of Mentalism for generations and some of the top personalities in the field literally had a private office or even storefront via which private sessions were done. So perspective says a lot when it comes to this issue.

Those that don't want to believe in anything will deny it all even if they were face to face with a genuine miracle. They do not want to honestly experience such things and frequently, it's out of fear that they feel this way -- fear of being wrong as well as fear that they too can believe in the ethereal. Fortunately, circumstances have turned more than a few cynics into ardent believers however.

I've rambled on sufficiently and have hopefully given you enough, in way of resource and insight, so as to better understand the reality of this work vs. the hype. There is one more thing I much echo however . . . you keep jumping from point to point to point with things which is only distracting you from what needs to be done -- study & practice. There are not short cuts per ce. Some people may luck into opportunities but it is usually based on their skill level and how they impressed the right person at a given point in time, as a rule however, you must do the foot work and complete the foundation before you can build anything. It's a lonely task but it's one 99% of us have had to face, so stop trying to side-step it all. FOCUS on one obtainable thing such as developing a solid close-up routine or two so you can get a gig at a pizza shop or family dinning house and through that, earn the cash you need for investing into the things you want to do. I can assure you, it's far easier to get started as a magician doing tricks than attempting to be a psychic and doing Readings, especially if you don't genuinely believe (the public can sniff that out).

So there you have it. . . :wink:

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Re: "Psychic Abilities"

Postby Lord Freddie » Sep 12th, '12, 17:57

The4thCircle wrote:
Lord Freddie wrote:The irony of the whole situation is that magicians seem dead set in taking the 'real' magic from people's lives.


I was thinking about this exact thing the other day. I was watching an except from a past EMC when Ava Do said that you should find out as much as you can about your audience before performing because telling a spectator which hand they're holding a coin in or what card they're thinking of might pale in comparison to the intimate details their psychic can divulge.

I met a guy at a computer graphics conference in LA who started talking about transcending the physical and telling me about the n-diensional out of body journeys he went on with his spiritualist and I thought at the time there is probably no magician in the land who could come close to impressing the guy, because he's seen better magic in his head than would be possible in the hands of even the most skilled performer.

-Stacy


This is a very important post and shows true understanding of how magical something can be which touches a spectator profoundly. The most powerful thing you can use is not some silly little sleight but people's imaginations. Imaginations, when ignited, produce real magic.

www.themysticmenagerie.com

"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
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Re: "Psychic Abilities"

Postby Dr Percival RP Pound » Sep 12th, '12, 21:10

I honestly deplore the attutudes of many a conjurer when it comes to the denouncement of the psychic (for simplicity sake I'm going to use the term 'psychic' to cover mediums, readers etc rather than use it in its truest sense). I'll ask anyone who expresses negative opinions if they've ever witnessed a good psychic be it medium or reader ply their trade? Many will say no. They are able to affer a hope to those desperately in need of hope, they can offer that small piece of encouragement that is needed for the sitter to grasp their life and give the courage to take an oportunity that they may otherwise have allowed to pass them by.

A good psychic is a wonderful thing and before you call them out on what you may think is their phoney belief system just stop and think for a while. Have you not had something strange and unexplainable happen to you in your life, a coincidence so wonderous that it couldn't simply be a coincidence? Which of us is to say what's fact and what's fantasy? Modern science has gone on to prove as fact many superstitions that were once laughed at by learned men. Who's to say what piece of bunkum we oh so clever and knowledgable mages will laugh at today only to see proved fact tomorrow?

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Re: "Psychic Abilities"

Postby Mandrake » Sep 12th, '12, 22:40

Perhaps a bit simplistic but let's consider a person who sits with another, somewhat concerned or troubled, person, or perhaps one who just has unanswered questions, and listens to their problems. Or even just listens to anything they have to say and offers honestly held thoughts and observations. That person could be called psychic, they could equally be called a Counsellor or even a Minister of one faith or another. None of those three can claim to have all the answers but we tend to be more understanding about Ministers and Counsellors - so why not about Psychics? Actually, I prefer to refer to them as Intuitives as that seems to be a more accurate description of what they do and how they do it IMHO.

Mark's London lectures in 2010 covered a lot of the background and attitudes needed for being a reader or whatever term we like to use. Since then there have been several excellent works by Freddie, Stephen, Tristan, Paul and others which have added even more to this mindset. As far as I can see, it doesn't really matter if others are sceptical, all that matters is that the reader is fully considerate and skilled, and both he/she and the sitter are happy and comfortable with what goes on.

Having read various works on such people as D.D.Home, the Fox Sisters, even the Brothers Davenport, I'm solidly convinced that there are a lot of fakers around, always have been always will be. Same applies to finance, commerce, building repairs, garages, energy suppliers, insurance policies and any other activity where the less reputable see the opportunity to make some quick and easy money. That doesn't mean that everyone is similarly bad and it's the same with this topic. Sadly the bad 'uns get all the publicity and the good 'uns aren't considered newsworthy.

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