talkmagic.co.uk

would you think it better to use a quarter over a half piece so i can pretend to borrow the coin or is the half way more impressive due to its size and it not being borrowed wont matter much especially since i offer it for examination before the trick?

Ok, you're obviously very new at all of this, right?

To begin with, you're referring to U.S. currency in a UK forum which means many of the folks here might not know the size difference.

Think about this logically though; what coin is most common and would be the easiest to borrow from someone else?

If you use a half-dollar the coin will be instantly suspect in that they are not common in today's culture even though using one, is far more impressive. The more mind-boggling variant however, is to place the bottle's own cap into the bottle and that is something even smaller than a quarter but because of the organic aspects tied to the presentation, it's the superior route to take.

I don't mean to confuse you or put you down in any way, I'm just trying to get you to think a bit that's what real magicians do; we question things a bit and consider what would be the more logical prop given the environment we are most likely to work in.

A QUESTION FOR YOU. . . Have you completed your study of the Mark Wilson or Tarbell Course in Magic?

Given your many questions and how you are wording them, I thinking you're shopping for tricks vs. learning magic. I'd highly encourage you to stop wasting money on buying items until you understand the fundamentals and become proficient in working with them. Let me give you an example; you have two posts about Canes.

Why would you purchase a cane of this sort unless you were looking at building a platform or parlor act? That being the case, why would you want to purchase a close-up effect/bar bet (coin in a bottle)? Seems to me you'd either want to focus on building that parlor routine by investing your time and money solely into that project or else drop that project and apply these same energies towards building a close-up type program. You see, you have to focus in order to build something worth while. Once you accomplish one goal THEN you can shift gears and focus on the next, other wise you will be spinning your wheels and getting nowhere fast.

Get yourself a set of Fakini Billiard Balls, learn how to do solid card work for the stage (fans, etc.) and develop a solid "traditional" act. If you create a solid program of this sort you'll get the work because it is very rare in today's world and the public is looking to see TALENT not TRICKS. Once you're fluid in this niche then maybe consider a close-up act that reflects that semblance of class that a traditional manipulation act suggests; the Cups & Balls, demonstration of smooth card and/or coin control, etc.

As I said before, my goal is to help you take the action needed to become a Magician vs. some clown that does tricks

ok well hmm i guess you didnt read my profile before jumping to such conclusions as "I thinking you're shopping for tricks vs. learning magic" i have been a working pro for many years, i did overlook the fact that its a uk site and many may not be familiar with our coins, however there are many members to this forum that do live in the states. i asked about different venued effects because i have been invited on many different occasion to do a stage act and am working toward such a goal. my card work is very good my fans are nearly perfect most everytime. my question was simply is the borrowed coin that much more impressive because its borrowed or would the double in size coin thats not borrowed be more impressive given the fact i let them freely inspect it prior to and after the effect a valid question in my opinion both are or can be equally impressive just wanted other view points. i have been working towards a stage act for many years but still am nowhere near ready to put on a show this doesnt mean i wont purchase some stage effects from time to time i need them to practice with. you did give good advise you were just a bit presumptious .
best reguards

Craig Browning wrote:Ok, you're obviously very new at all of this, right?

To begin with, you're referring to U.S. currency in a UK forum which means many of the folks here might not know the size difference.

Think about this logically though; what coin is most common and would be the easiest to borrow from someone else?

If you use a half-dollar the coin will be instantly suspect in that they are not common in today's culture even though using one, is far more impressive. The more mind-boggling variant however, is to place the bottle's own cap into the bottle and that is something even smaller than a quarter but because of the organic aspects tied to the presentation, it's the superior route to take.

I don't mean to confuse you or put you down in any way, I'm just trying to get you to think a bit that's what real magicians do; we question things a bit and consider what would be the more logical prop given the environment we are most likely to work in.

A QUESTION FOR YOU. . . Have you completed your study of the Mark Wilson or Tarbell Course in Magic?

Given your many questions and how you are wording them, I thinking you're shopping for tricks vs. learning magic. I'd highly encourage you to stop wasting money on buying items until you understand the fundamentals and become proficient in working with them. Let me give you an example; you have two posts about Canes.

Why would you purchase a cane of this sort unless you were looking at building a platform or parlor act? That being the case, why would you want to purchase a close-up effect/bar bet (coin in a bottle)? Seems to me you'd either want to focus on building that parlor routine by investing your time and money solely into that project or else drop that project and apply these same energies towards building a close-up type program. You see, you have to focus in order to build something worth while. Once you accomplish one goal THEN you can shift gears and focus on the next, other wise you will be spinning your wheels and getting nowhere fast.

Get yourself a set of Fakini Billiard Balls, learn how to do solid card work for the stage (fans, etc.) and develop a solid "traditional" act. If you create a solid program of this sort you'll get the work because it is very rare in today's world and the public is looking to see TALENT not TRICKS. Once you're fluid in this niche then maybe consider a close-up act that reflects that semblance of class that a traditional manipulation act suggests; the Cups & Balls, demonstration of smooth card and/or coin control, etc.

As I said before, my goal is to help you take the action needed to become a Magician vs. some clown that does tricks

Personally i always take Craig's advice as there are (undisclosed) years of wisdom behind them!!

I was overkeen and enthusiastic and wanted to know everything and do everything no so long ago, but Craig among others offered me a wealth of wisdom and all of their time FOR FREE! and saved me a fortune in the process!

Back on topic, if you're going to put a "borrowed" coin in a bottle, surely the bigger/most common would be the best, i personally do it with a 50p this side of the pond....but i am not a "Magician" I'm a clown who does tricks, posing as a magician

Much love

Aza

if i was doing what he assumed i was doing it would be good advise, i would take heed to the advise if it pertained to me and my situation, but it doesnt . "I'd highly encourage you to stop wasting money on buying items until you understand the fundamentals " he assumes to much in my humble opinion before telling me im not focusing in one area like i should be, one could ask, what area are you focusing on, and maybe ask "why interested in different venues" instead of assuming im all over the place without due cause or a logical thought process

One problem here is that although Profiles and Intros are written, not everyone can remember all the details about experience and so on. If someone asks a question here and get a response which they feel isn't appropriate or on their level then perhaps the information will be of use to others? I'd bet good money that the spread of skill levels amongst TM membership is very wide indeed so just about any informative response will be of great value. If the answers don't apply then just say so politely and either ask again or rephrase the question. Giving a negative reply to responses will only mean that such help isn't offered so swiftly for others in the future.

UK currency has undergone a lot of size changes in recent years and there's very little compatibility with the US coins, nevertheless we do have a lot of US members who will be able to offer specific and more local advice.

Hi there.

It depends where you are going to be using the piece. If its for small stage/parlour sized audiences then Michael Ammars handling would work well. A half would work in this setting and it would be easy to give it some context. The half (your own) would be given to your helper along with a small file to scratch the coin for future identification - these scratch marks are used for a clever subtlety later in the routine. At the conclusion the coin can be given away.

However, if its to be performed close-up then the largest coin in current circulation should be used (that can "fit" of course). A point should be made (and demonstrated) in relation to the size of the coin compared to the neck opening, this can be worked into the presentation. Also, when properly done the coin seems to visually pop through the bottom of the bottle, with no suspision on the neck whatsoever. A quarter is still far too large to fit in say a beer bottle, and ill bet everyone you do this for will immedietly recognise the impossibility of it.

I'm not against using uncirculated or even foreign coins in close-up. In fact for much of my coun work I use silver kennedy halfs (1964), and old english georgian pennies (1911 - 1921). However, I feel certain effects are more appropriate for using borrowed coins (coin in bottle, cig through coin, or any effect where the coin is bent of altered).

In short, close-up a quarter would be fine, for larger audiences I'd go for the half and give it away afterwards.

Of course its all just my opinion.


Jim

good point mandrake and i suppose it was a bit of a negative reply but this was do to much frustration of several negative remarks on several posts that did not apply, even after i made reference to look over my profile, I was trying to politely say, as you suggested that this wasn't my issues, but wanted to point out the importance of asking rather than assuming if someone is inquiring about many different venued effects, example the thread i posted about "don't feel like your a peopleperson?
i talk about the importance of practicing an overcoming fears an inhabitions , my reply was "i feel your talking about yourself for some reason" when i already stated these were some of my biggest obstacles but had overcome them, in the first line of the post. id rather get no help at all than to be talked to condesendingly. i.e.
"stop asking and start looking" i think this was due to a large number of posts in a 24 hr period, i will post more sparingly and ask much less questions. i was bored and my insomnia was acting up. i will refrain from negative replies in the future . thanks for the forums i think it's an awesome place to learn. Sincerely

p.s. it tells my age that im a working pro and been a member since 2007 on every post, so not remembering a profile? its right in front of you..just sayin----------->

It's all a question of perspective, what one person will see as offering basic help, another might see as being condescending. That's one of the drawbacks of the written word on Discussion Boards, in a face to face situation the tone, expression and body language of the participants would make a hell of a difference!

seymourmagic wrote:if i was doing what he assumed i was doing it would be good advise, i would take heed to the advise if it pertained to me and my situation, but it doesnt . "I'd highly encourage you to stop wasting money on buying items until you understand the fundamentals " he assumes to much in my humble opinion before telling me im not focusing in one area like i should be, one could ask, what area are you focusing on, and maybe ask "why interested in different venues" instead of assuming im all over the place without due cause or a logical thought process

Ok. . . let's look at this from my or any seasoned person's point of view. . .

1.) You're asking a very basic 1st year student question.
2.) As has been explained to you, the multiple threads suggest to most of us than a rank wannabe is swimming in day dreams
3.) Your style of writing, improper grammar and poor spelling suggests someone still in their teens but most certainly not an experience "pro"

BTW. . . "Pro" doesn't mean someone's given you a couple of bucks here and there for doing a trick; there's a heck of a lot more to that claim even though certain ego's wish to think doing a paid gig a few times a month or year equates to "professional" . . . it's what used to be called "Semi-Professional" in most all magic clubs. If less than 60% of your actual living costs is generated through performance, you're a part-timer at best -- a Semi-Professional. But, there is one more side to this side-note and that's called "Professionalism" -- etiquette being one side of that while proper presentation is a major factor therein; if you want to get the real money in your life as a performer, work the top end gigs, you need to learn language skills and use them. This is something every full-time pro is going to tell you. . . one very successful friend of mine actually writes & re-writes his material so his wife can proof read it for him. . .he has ADHD and other issues but he understands the value of proper presentation & communication. In this case, if you don't want to be seen as a newbie and more as an actual working "adult" you learn to write like a grown-up vs. the lazy manner so many young people have gotten into the habit of doing as part of their rebellion and thinking it fun to poke fun at language guidelines.

yes indeed i did ask a beginners question that is because it pertained to a stage effect and i am new in that area. I would agree that I am a semi-pro rather than a pro. I work for a catering company, in the background I make wedding cakes an such; in the dining room, im a magician a tablehopper. I work several times a week and most weekends. yes i mispelled a couple of words like advice i put advise and condescending, but there are many adults that aren't so great at spelling, some of what I typed was accidental, like I put the word thought as thouhgt. I know how to spell that word it was just a typo. you made one of those on this post "suggest to most of us than a rank wannabe is swimming in day dreams" I believe the word than was suppose to be that, it was like four in the morning and im talking informally on a board so i used "I dunno" rather than "I don't know" this is rare for me I am not usually one to use text speaking as I know it can be at times hard to figure out and annoying .
I will speak more grown up in the future. I am not a person with a big ego, I don't even refer to myself as a pro or semi-pro in the real world, just simply a magician. I only describe myself as a pro on this forum so people can have some idea about my skill level. I feel fortunate to be able to talk with people of your skill level in these forums. I do regret the excessive posts as I reluctantly admitted, I was after a status of full member by my name. I just wanted it to show that because I have been a member for years and involved with magic for years. I do feel like this was a mistake and started my return back to TM off on the wrong foot. I'd like to start over if I may, Hello Mr.browning, I'm seymour it's nice to meet you.

Mandrake, I'm sure your right on that point too, I've attempted to regain some lost respect for my excessive postings and lazy questions, hope it worked.

Every thing tells me to keep my mouth shut on this, but here I go.

First. I use a half dollar. But I start with a coins across and in that justify my use of halves so they are no longer suspect. But it lends itself to my style of performance. Without watching you perform I cannot tell you what is better for you. To use a half, borrow a quarter or use a cap, or one of the other multitude of variations on the effect.

Second. And once again I find myself on Craig's side of things. Not that this should be an issue of sides, it should be an issue of learning. But thats another topic.

But before you get all defensive look at this from Craigs side. There is nothing wrong with your questions, but they are pretty basic, stuff that is usually learned within the first year or so of performance. And I emphasize the word performance.

In your first reply to Craig you mention that your card work is excellent, I don't remember the exact wording and I'm way to lazy to go back and look it up again. but you follow it with, 'my fans are almost always perfect" What do card fans have to do with the quality or calibre of magic? Nothing! They are not needed and they are more a demonstration of a flourish rather then card effect quality.

You hand out coins 'props' to be examined? Now I understand your other thread about you getting too close to a spectator and they grabbed your prop. Its because every time you hand something out to be examined you are creating a challange. I'm not saying don't hand things out. I'm saying don't hand them out to be examined. If there is not another reason to hand something out then for pity's sake, don't do it! And if you hand some things out and not others. Well you are already at an extreme disadvantage.

Back to your original question. Why not try both. Go a few rounds with a half, go a few with the quarter. (not to the same people of course) and see which one gets you the best reaction. In the end, that is the only way you are ever going to get the answers to such questions.

It is my hope you don't get upset from this post. I only want to help.

Not upsetting to me at all, I only mentioned card fans because he suggested I work on sleights and flourishes at least i think he did and thats what prompted me to say I already know and use them. I could of mentioned many other card sleights and flourishes i know, such as the classic pass. the hindu, elmsly count,dl's,false cuts and shuffles,springs,dribbles, etc...I don't think I come across as a show off either, I get good feedback from my card effects.
and I have acknowledged that craig was in the right mostly as far as why I was looking so green and I have explained myself as best I could as to why I was doing the
not so thought out posts. I replied explaining more of why she grabbed my prop on that thread. I'm not easily offended (usually) we just had a couple moments where I felt he was being very negative with me, we have worked it all out. He is a great guy, we started on a fresh page, were good now; no worries. I'm waiting on my replacement bands cant do any flipper work without them, should be here today along with some other goodies i.e. flashpaper jumbo nickel shells and peas, i gotta go check the mail now *POOF* gone