talkmagic.co.uk

Hey Guys,

I was just wondering what your preferred methods to use are when you come up against that awkward spectator. That person who picks their card but then insists on getting the rest of the deck of you and putting the card back in themselves. Not so much the person who just wants to put the card in themselves, but the person who wants the rest of the deck aswell to actually put the card in themselves. They don’t want you touching anything like.

The way I am thinking of getting out of such situations is by telling them it's irrelevant if I see the card as it’s not that type of trick. I then turn their card over for all to see and place it face up on the bottom of the deck. Then palm change it with the card beneath which usually looks impressive, then palm change it back to their card. Hopefully they are impressed by this change, I can then take their card and place it in the deck myself and continue on with whatever routine. It’s just an idea that could maybe get me out of these situations.

Just wondering what you guys recommend for similar situations?

Thanks a lot

Funny you should mention this topic as it is often a difficult one to contend with when you get the "awkward" spectator.

Firstly, remember your audience management skills will improve with time and you will find what works for you as a magician to contend with this. For the time being i use a method that Paul Gordon uses, now if it's good enough for him it's good enough for the rest of us!

Basically you don't give them the chance to be "awkward" you cut off half the pack and offer it to them instructing them to place it back and say thank you, before they can cause you any headaches.

Hope this helps your issue

Much love

Aza

Oi!! The wife only let me out if I promised I wouldn't let anyone touch my deck. At least I think that's what she said??

Follow this with an onslaught of belittling double entendres - it works for me!!

K

Personal favourite.
Take cards back. Ask something to take 10 steps back, turn around and put their hands behind them ready to catch.
Say "ready?" then walk off to someone else.

As for people grabbing at a deck, I let them take it; if they don't give it back or if they throw it on the floor just get out another one and turn to someone else.
I've had a dozen or so folk throw a deck on the floor and i've never picked one up, i've had about 10 returned to me by the person that threw it though.

Easy solution for someone wanting to do their own thing with returning the card and shuffling it: Force a short card.

The trouble with the Paul Gordon method is that it does not look very fair and I think a trifle suspicious. It is never very good to simply say,"put your card there". Far better is something along the same lines but far more effective. As soon as they say something like this, just overhand shuffle and say "tell me when to stop shuffling. Say stop whenever you like". You have to say this with an authoritative manner. When they replace the card you continue with the shuffle and use the injog.

In truth there are many methods of dealing with this. I thoroughly recommend purchasing a fantastic book which has been invaluable to me in this regard. It is called "Outs, Precautions and Challenges" by Charles Hopkins. It will tell you exactly how to deal with this sort of thing plus many other tricky scenarios along this line.

If you always force a card then you could go along with it, alternatively perhaps you could use a marked deck to always know the selected card as a precaution.
Roberto Giobbi (somewhere in card college) describes the use of Emotional Reaction by Vernon as an out for this and similar challenges. It is in volume 2 of card college (page 470), it is elaborated on further on page 81 of Secret Agenda by Giobbi.

In effect, the card is helplessly lost in the deck, you instruct the spectator on how to get an emotional connection with his card, and then you find it.

You could also go into a Michael Vincent effect (i think is called Kismet) and is similar to Emotional Reaction, but the magician also selects a card, then you find the spectators card and the spectator find yours.

You can also contrive somehow to get the card in your hand for a second or two as if to put it back yourself but relent and let him do as he pleases. However, you edge mark the card with your thumbnail. But there are loads of other methods too. It really isn't a big deal.

Well I let them lose it in the pack without knowing the card myself, and immediately perform the same trick to a different spectator, randomly asking if the awkward customer remembers the card.

One i have my round of applause from the effect, i turn to Mr. Awkward and say "you've been thinking of a card for the entire time right?"
"Yes"
"For the first time - what was the card?" I say this as if im about to reveal it, often having my hand halfway in my jacket pocket.

He will now be suitable impressed that you are good (from seeing a successful trick) and give up the information.

Once you know the card - theres a million outs. Take your pick.

---
On a side note, if someone is particulary rude in doing this, I simply say "looks like you are too smart for this trick, concecde defeat to them, then gear the ENTIRETY of the rest of my 10 minutes making him look like an idiot. again, a million tricks make the spec out to be a dick. pick and choose.

shuffleshuffle wrote:Well I let them lose it in the pack without knowing the card myself, and immediately perform the same trick to a different spectator, randomly asking if the awkward customer remembers the card.

One i have my round of applause from the effect, i turn to Mr. Awkward and say "you've been thinking of a card for the entire time right?"
"Yes"
"For the first time - what was the card?" I say this as if im about to reveal it, often having my hand halfway in my jacket pocket.

He will now be suitable impressed that you are good (from seeing a successful trick) and give up the information.

Once you know the card - theres a million outs. Take your pick.

---
On a side note, if someone is particulary rude in doing this, I simply say "looks like you are too smart for this trick, concecde defeat to them, then gear the ENTIRETY of the rest of my 10 minutes making him look like an idiot. again, a million tricks make the spec out to be a dick. pick and choose.

I like your post all except for the last bit. You should NEVER make a spectator look an idiot when doing close up card magic. Rude spectators are actually doing you a favour. They keep you on your toes and help you hone your skills. It is your job to turn him into a friend. Not an easy task to do but a skilled performer can do this if he is on the ball. Besides I am not sure how rude someone is just because they don't want to go along with your instructions. He is only trying to satisfy himself that everything is fair and he is perfectly entitled to do that. The second you try to "make him look an idiot" is the second you have lost the battle.

No. There are ways of turning the pest into an asset and if you do this correctly he will praise you for evermore and often become your best booster. I have always said that it is far more important to manipulate PEOPLE than it is to manipulate cards. That is where the real skill lies in being a good card magician (or any other kind of magician come to that).

Terrific reply ( as usual) from Mark.There are occasions when you do just need to say something polite like "look I'll just get out of your hair" and move on. Mainly however i find that just as Mark says you can "turn" a pectator.

I have never had anyone try to snatch any prop from my hands and if they did i woulod just let them take it (provided it's not gimmicked!) and turn to someone else in the group and do another trick. If you can get your critic hooked then you have won hands down. I might use something as simple as my ID, which performed as a mind reading effect quietens down even the most hostile spectator I find. I actually turned a young lady from openly hostile to magic in any form in to a booking to perform at her wedding in a ten minute set.

I have a bit of an advantage I think in that I am old, well, over 60 any way and this means that I have had an awful lot of corners knocked off me in a life at the sharp end of business and in local politics. Confidence in yourself is the main element to performmin at all in public and it pays dividends when you can display that confidence in front of awkward customers.

mark lewis wrote:No. There are ways of turning the pest into an asset and if you do this correctly he will praise you for evermore and often become your best booster. I have always said that it is far more important to manipulate PEOPLE than it is to manipulate cards. That is where the real skill lies in being a good card magician (or any other kind of magician come to that).

I said if he is particularly rude. generally speaking if im paid to be somewhere i would never do this, but some roving trogloyte in a pub?

perhaps it was not portayed in the language i used but you must admit, one upping someone trying to dominate you is the most satisfying feeling ever.

Its the same reason i am obsessed with cons. Its the idea that you can outsmart someone whos only asset is loudmouthmanship (NEW FAVOURITE MADE UP WORD!!) or physicality.

would certainly agree with you to be honest, making someone look a dick as a pro is a terrible idea - but in some situations it is the most delicious thing and a great buzz (which is the only reason i mentioned it ).

So if you are paid to entertain captain dickhead, handle him like my first point (or many better ways mentioned by others) - if you are not and want to have some fun with a pisshead, go for it. Just dont leave him with that sour taste at then end. Make sure you dissolve any tension.


EDIT.
important edit - I never perform without a smile on my face and a calm demaenor.

I play the role of a funster and am never physically or verbally threatening. Because my demeanor is always so upbeat and jokey even if i am trying to make someone look a bit silly, they generally are not gonna get pi**ed off. its all part of the act. Ive wound people up like mentioned countless times and never once had a problem. magc is designed to trick people and if you achieve that then you are doing your job, even if it is at the expense of a rude spectators.

in the smae way a comedian can get away with a clever insult, i can get away with a clever trick designed to someone look silly.

because my character is defined, people get that it fits. its all in good spirits.


If youre are a 6'2 boxer with a stern look and a nose like a badger you're not getting away with it.

How to deal with an awkward spectator? Embrace them. Learn from them. Don't present a challange.

The bad news is you will always come across these people. The good news is that they are necessary. The better news is that with each one, if you take the time to learn what you did to elicite such a response, the fewer you will see in the future, the better news is that eventually you will learn to spot these people in advance and just stay clear of them.

At the moment. If they insist on grabbing the deck? Give it to them. And while they are doing whatever they want with it reach into your pocket pull out a coin and start performing something else.

bmat wrote:How to deal with an awkward spectator? Embrace them.

Well, that will certainly change the atmosphere one way or another!

Nope. I don't care HOW rude they are. If you are doing close up magic impromptu for fun and no money you STILL have to treat your spectators with courtesy no matter how difficult they are. Oddly enough if you are being paid, contrary to what has been said and in a counter intuitive way you may actually have to be firmer with the spectator than you would be otherwise, particularly if you are working on a stage to drunks. Then you can't afford to be too nice but even here there are ways to defuse the situation.

But for close up magic there are ways to achieve victory in the situation providing you have your wits about you. And one of those ways is never to "put one over" but rather to "win one over" the difficult audience member. There are indeed ways to do it. I wish I had the space to explain them.

Thanks a lot everyone for your input. Much appreciated guys