talkmagic.co.uk

So I posted in the introduction section and was told my questions may be answered here:

nachom wrote:Hey everyone, was so glad there was a magic forum.
...
What initially got me interested was the magician Cyril Takayama, and someone I met at school.

This guy performed a bunch of tricks, that were very amazing, I was wondering If any of you would happen to know the names of those routines? (I'd ask him, but am no longer in touch with him)

One of his tricks involved a phone. After getting me to pick a card, doing some appearances/disappearances and finally revealing to me what my card was. He asks me to check his phone (which he gave me prior). When i checked it, the wallpaper of the phone was the card I had chosen.

Second trick, he made me pick a card and let me keep it. He had a lighter and "Burned" his hand and asked me to concentrate on my card. Eventually, a blister in the shape of the number that was my card (8 of spades) had formed has a blister on his finger.

Third trick, I don't remember the entire routine too well, but by the end of it, somehow he had split the deck into half red cards and half black cards all together.

I'd love to be able to perform these types of tricks one day, and whilst I know they are probably very advanced, am still committed to learning them and going through the basics!

Any help appreciated!

Third trick i was told is called "Triumph" which i then looked for youtube tutorials, and it seemed different, so any other ideas?

If you're looking to get into card magic, I'd really recommend that you get yourself either a copy of Royal Road to Card Magic specifically for card magic or Mark Wilson's Complete Course if you want something that covers a wide range of magic. Both books are brilliant and will set you on your way well.

All three of those tricks/effects would benefit from a grounding in basic card magic skills.
I'd echo the post by the lady in terms of what to suggest.

ETA:
Please avoid youtube magic tutorials if you don't want to get into bad habits, the basic books and practicing with fellow magicians will help much more in developing your skills.
Is there a magician's "school" near you, perhaps linked to your local magic shop?
For the names of the effects, I'd just ask the guy who performed them for you! Show him that you are interested in magic and off you go.

nachom wrote:Third trick i was told is called "Triumph" which i then looked for youtube tutorials, and it seemed different, so any other ideas?

I am afraid that people will probably not be falling over themselves to offer direct answers to your questions, because you've created a picture that, at worst, you just want to find out how this person performed these tricks (rather than having a genuine interest in magic). At best, you have indicated that you aren't willing to show what many magicians would regard as proper respect for creators of magic, by looking for tutorials (aka "exposure") online.

To many magicians, the former option will look much more likely, because the first trick you have asked about sounds like a combination of very common card magic elements. If you have a real interest in learning how to perform magic, and start reading books on the subject, you will soon find out how to do something quite similar. There might not even be a proper name to this trick; it is quite possibly a routine that your "friend" created from these common tricks/moves.

The second trick could be one of at least three marketed effects. This card blister plot was very popular a few years ago. If you stick around and contribute, I will happily provide the names. If not, well, case proved, I think.

As to the third trick, again, if you start learning about magic, especially card magic, you will discover that many tricks have different variations.

thanks for the replies everyone!

Part-Timer wrote:

nachom wrote:Third trick i was told is called "Triumph" which i then looked for youtube tutorials, and it seemed different, so any other ideas?

because you've created a picture that, at worst, you just want to find out how this person performed these tricks (rather than having a genuine interest in magic). At best, you have indicated that you aren't willing to show what many magicians would regard as proper respect for creators of magic, by looking for tutorials (aka "exposure") online.

In regards to this, my apologies. I have indeed gotten myself copies of a few books so far, Mark wilson's guide, bobo's modern coin magic, 13 steps to mentalism and stagy hypnosis - reality is plastic, but i am not looking at the mentalism books yet. My interest in magic isn't just 'ooo i really want to know how to do that trick!'. This has become a new hobby for me . In my introduction post I have entailed how I have started learning sleights and practicing flourishes to improve my dexterity, I only quoted a part of it here though.

May I ask why looking at youtube tutorials is bad? sometimes i find that the diagrams in the books coupled with explanations can be a bit difficult to focus on, whereas in video you know exactly what hand motions to make.

I am not sure of any magic school near me unfortunately, I'm going to try and teach myself through books and this forum and any other online resources i can find.
I don't like to brag, but I absolutely love creating my own routines. It's just being creative and light hearted haha. I've learned 3 new tricks so far, and practice on my siblings.

There a a number of problems with learning from Youtube.
1) ethics- what is taught may be a commercial effect that is not in the public domain and by learning through Youtube you are effectively "stealing" a trade secret- unethical at least. That is why you will not find the details of commercially available routines discussed on this forum.
2) techniques- a lot of people when they learn from video they find that they copy what they see as a mirror image so use the "wrong" hand which can lead to bad habits when you then learn from someone else
3) quality- a lot of the "tutorials" on youtube are frankly badly explained and do not actually demonstrate the best way of doing things.

If you want to learn basic card skills from video as well as from books there are DVDs out there that can be very helpful.
I take it from the time you are posting that you are in the Southern Hemisphere, I can't help with where to get things from but royal road to card magic has been done in DVD form, also this DVD set:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Card-M ... B003EGNKT0
Is very good value for money, the patter is old fashioned and there's no "live" performance but the amount of information there is phenomenal.

Oh okay, I understand and in that case I guess i'll stick to the books.

I assume by techniques you refer to how to hold decks etc properly which will end up leaving you with weak foundations.

You're correct, I'm from Australia.

Part-Timer wrote:

nachom wrote:Third trick i was told is called "Triumph" which i then looked for youtube tutorials, and it seemed different, so any other ideas?

I am afraid that people will probably not be falling over themselves to offer direct answers to your questions, because you've created a picture that, at worst, you just want to find out how this person performed these tricks (rather than having a genuine interest in magic). At best, you have indicated that you aren't willing to show what many magicians would regard as proper respect for creators of magic, by looking for tutorials (aka "exposure") online.

No disrespect there PT, but I think that's a little bit harsh. We all have to start somewhere. Our new friend nachom has had his interest sparked by another performer, so let's not rush to judge who exactly has a legitimate and 'genuine' interest in magic. YouTube is a perfectly valid place to find tutorials on a wide range of subjects, and magic tricks are no different (no matter how precious we feel the 'secrets' are). At least our new friend has taken the time to start his inquiries in the Introductions section. I don't feel that this is just another one of those drive-by "HOW IS THIS TRICK DONE!!!" threads, as evidenced by:

nachom wrote: I'd love to be able to perform these types of tricks one day, and whilst I know they are probably very advanced, am still committed to learning them and going through the basics!

emphasis mine

To nachom:
Hi there, and welcome to the TM boards!
So, you've been lucky enough (it sounds) to experience some quality close-up magic. Is it [expletive] awesome or not! There really is a huge difference from seeing it done on TV to seeing it done six inches from your nose!

Card tricks are a good place to start your magical education. Cards themselves are cheap, and easy to get hold of, not to mention being easily portable. As you've already experienced, not all card tricks are just 'You pick a card and the magician finds it in a mysterious way' type-affairs. They can also involve may other every-day items like phones and lighters. In short, just within the filed of card magic itself, there is great variety.

This situation is actually a bit of a double-edged sword. Withing card magic alone, there is tons of material. Almost literally, not a week passes by without a new book being published on the subject. Quite simply, there is not enough time in one's life to make an effective appraisal of it all. for this reason, it pays to know where to start, and what to avoid.

Two of the most popular resources of information on card magic are books and DVD's. Other resources include downloadable PDF's, video tutorials (both You-Tube and otherwise), and finally, the most expensive option, a mentor.

Naturally, this being t'internet, there is a lively debate (read: flame-war) as to which is the 'best' - books or DVD's. Obviously, this is a false dichotomy, as the simple answer is that both are required. What will differ amongst individuals is the extent to which they use one over the other.

Personally, I favour books over DVD's. I tend to learn a trick from a book first, then, after a while I may obtain the same information on DVD to see if I can add anything to the performance. I do it this way so that I don't fall into the trap of simply aping the performance I see on DVD (intentionally or not). By learning the material from a book first, I have to interpret the material personally, which leads me to perform the effect my way.

So with that in mind, let me recommend a good book as a starting point. The book is called Card College Volume 1 by Roberto Giobbi (Hermetic Press, ISBN 0-945296-18-5). It costs around £25 (online). This may sound a bit expensive for a book, but it's quite large (250 pages), and hard backed (so it won't fall apart after a year). As with buying a music CD, it's not about what you get for your money (a shiny plastic disc), but the content. Card College is widely regarded around the world as one of the best modern resources on card magic.

The book is structured in such a way as to teach you a technique, then to teach you a trick using that technique. Also, along the way, you will receive superb education from the author as to the fact that the 'secret-moves' stuff is but a small part of an effective trick. The writing itself is clear, detailed, and very easy to read. This is not just a dry book listing endless moves. The author guides the reader step-by-step through each part of a trick, with notes at the end on any potential sticking points.

As you may have noted from the books title, there are more in the series (five in total as of this post). I would caution you against buying more than one at a time. Firstly it's gets quite pricey. Secondly, and more importantly, you will feel strongly tempted to rush ahead to see what's in the next book. It is vitally important that you methodically work through each book to get a solid foundation in the techniques and principles of the craft. Don't worry, there are some knockout tricks in the first volume alone!

Hope this helps,
SpareJoker.

Hey Sparejoker, thanks for the reply and warm welcome!

I've got to say, when he first told me he knew magic, I didn't expect anything much out of the ordinary 'pick a card and i'll show you which you picked'. I had seen some Cyril Takayama street magic and thought 'wow, that was amazing.. but those are probably actors and camera tricks.' Well when this guy performed in front of me, I was completely blown away. And that's when I also realised that Cyril wouldn't have used camera tricks or paid actors at all, truly amazing.He actually did loads of other amazing magic too, but those 3 performances stood out the most to me.

Ah yes, I am most certainly understand people's opinions on the internet as to what is regarded as the best way to approach something, I'll try to keep an open mind and see what works best for me. Personally, I think i'd prefer reading in some format over a DVD, unless it's a short tutorial, which is also why I have gone to youtube as well.

Card college sounds great, I'll look to see if I can get my hands on it, university doesn't start for another two months, so I have plenty of time to learn magic!

May I ask, how long it takes you to go through one these books as a newbie? Or has it been something that you used more as a reference from time to time to learn some new ideas or cuts/sleights, instead of learning your entire foundations from it?

Also, I understand Part-Timer's frustration, I would imagine lots of people just want to learn that one magic trick for the sake of knowing it. But as I've found, it's no fun when you know the trick. People's reactions go from 'OH, WOW THAT WAS AMAZING!' to 'oh.. that's it?' which sucks.. so it makes sense for the magic community to want to keep those people out. They would unintentionally ruin a very awesome craft/hobby.

And what's your opinion of Gerry Griffin's complete card magic series?

Finally just another question, before my posts show up, it says it will have to be viewed and approved by a moderator. Is this because I am new and will stop after a certain amount of time/posts, or does this apply to everyone?

Thanks

I took my time and spent 6-12 months on each book (spending 2-4 hours a week practicing and rehearsing). They are worth keeping as they act as an excellent reference of pretty much every major sleight. I've had my copies for about 10 years now, and still reference them to this day.

If that's the route you want to take may I also suggest a close-up mat (neoprene, the largest you can find, around £15 online) which will help with practice and prolong the life of the deck. Also grab yourself about 3 packs of 'Bicycle' brand playing cards (ideally 'Poker 808', around £2 a pack), as these are the 'industry' standard. Finally, you'll need some soap-free handwash, always wash your hands before practice. It increases the sensitivity of your fingers, and again, will prolong the life of your cards.

I'm not particularly familiar with Gerry Griffin's work, try googling around for reviews.

RE moderation: yeah, I *think* that's with new users only.

nachom wrote: just another question, before my posts show up, it says it will have to be viewed and approved by a moderator. Is this because I am new and will stop after a certain amount of time/posts, or does this apply to everyone?

The first five posts from every new arrival have to be manually checked and approved, after that they appear automatically. Sadly this had to be introduced to hide as much crud and spam as possible from public view - a lot of it rather unsavoury to say the least!

SpareJoker wrote:I took my time and spent 6-12 months on each book (spending 2-4 hours a week practicing and rehearsing). They are worth keeping as they act as an excellent reference of pretty much every major sleight. I've had my copies for about 10 years now, and still reference them to this day.

If that's the route you want to take may I also suggest a close-up mat (neoprene, the largest you can find, around £15 online) which will help with practice and prolong the life of the deck. Also grab yourself about 3 packs of 'Bicycle' brand playing cards (ideally 'Poker 808', around £2 a pack), as these are the 'industry' standard. Finally, you'll need some soap-free handwash, always wash your hands before practice. It increases the sensitivity of your fingers, and again, will prolong the life of your cards.
.

Ah, fantastic.

I already have a deck of cards that I bought from local shops, and am familiar with the magic community using bicycle brand cards mostly. Is it necessarily a bad idea to practice with bad quality cards (I feel mine are)? I understand it'd be more difficult to do tricks, but would it make you overall more skilled, so that if after practicing with my current cards I switch to bicycle cards I will be really good? Or is it more like a bad pool table where you get used to the bad table and can't play as well on a good table?

The latter. Newer decks are better for some techniques (false counts and false shuffles), whereas broken-in decks are slightly better for multiple-lifts. Also, check to make sure the cards you are using are Poker sized (as opposed to bridge size, which are narrower).

The best thing to do is to just use whatever cards you're comfortable with. Yes most magicians tend to use Bikes but that's really just because it's seen as the "done thing" and certainly doesn't mean that they're the best quality cards out there (which they're not). The same goes with poker sized cards, they're no better than bridge cards, try both and use whatever you feel suits you better.

One of the advantages that you do have with Bikes is that there tend to be more gaff cards made for them than other makes but that's certainly not a reason why you have to use them.

I think the main reason magicians use bikes is because that's the brand most gaffs come in.