talkmagic.co.uk

Hey guys, just starting out on card magic/magic in general.

So I had read around and after seeing some posts from advanced members, I decided to start of with Mark Wilsons complete course in magic.

However, I find that my hand positions are rather sloppy (actually really sloppy, for isntance I'm doing the hindu shuffle and cards are sliding out of my left palm as i try to drop them, or im trying to fan cards out and they keep hitting the upper heel of my thumb).

I just wanted to ask, since I've been trying to fan for ages and still can't get it (it's been at 3 days of me just randomly trying fans as I sit on the computer) and hindu shuffles, is this normal? Or do you people get it faster than that. I won't be discouraged if i am slow but I am rather curious.

Furthermore, I was wondering if I should put mark wilson's guide aside from now and look at Card College 1 instead. Briefly skimming, looks like it places more emphasis on technique, how to hold things properly etc that mark wilson's guide.

Are there any reliable online resources as well? Sometimes I find illustrations/wordings in books a little hard to follow, or doubt myself if I'm following correctly, whereas video footage would remove all doubt.

Thanks!

Quick tips from a non-expert, but that could hardly make any damage:

1) Are the cards you are using clean enough? After a while, fanning may become a "sticky" problem. Proper maintenance is in order, as suggested in the very first chapter of Card College.
2) Are the cards used enough? I find that it takes a while before a new deck of cards becomes flexible enough to do most moves (and I'm talking of very basic moves here: I can hardly do more than basic shufflings and palmings...)
3) I sometimes find that, even if in principle I perfectly understood the techniques behind a move, I don't actually know whether I'm doing it well enough or not. Especially with cards, coins, sponges etc. I find that a visual reference (DVD) is a good idea. Since youtube is full of cr*p, though I will stick to sources recommended by the experts that linger around here. Better buy one good and tested DVD (which doesn't necessarily cost a lot of money) than waste countless hours learning things the wrong way.
4) Most "basic" moves are much harder to master than it would appear at first glance. Even the overhand shuffle is much trickier than one would assume.
5) I myself prefer Card College for its style, but I suggest you also get a copy of The Royal Road to Card Magic, which is dirty cheap. With Mark Wilson and Card College vol. 1 will give you more than enough reading material for a good while (at least if you want to stick to cards).

Good Luck!

Thanks for the reply.
the cards are clean, I only bought them 2-3 days ago. I think you may be right about them being maybe 'too' new (they are standard poker bicycle's btw)

Thanks, maybe i'll spend another week at it and if I sitll don't see any progress, I'll give Royal road to card magic a shot.

Greetings Nachom.. If its general magic you are interested doing, I suggest you stick with Mark wilsons book. (great book) Most people use this book when first starting in magic.. Also if you decide that cards are for you,? Then royal road to card magic is the bible of card magic, and also card college, which is a very popular book.. And most important lesson to learn in magic, is practice practice practice!!.. Also sometimes practice in front of a mirror!!.... Also Its even worth making a small video of yourself, and watching your progress through the screen, to just see how it would look to others? Remember there is a lot to learn and it wont happen over night, but will be a interesting journey to make.... May I suggest joining a local magic club, if you have one??? You will learn very quickly with all the experienced magicians on hand..Most important enjoy!!! Good luck with your journey..
Regards Garry

Stick with Mark Wilson's book for now. The variety and wealth of information is second to non. When you get comfortable and a little more proficient then start to look around.

3 days is not a long time. In fact it is a pretty short amount of time. And yes your cards may be a little slippery. Also I reccomend to stop trying to fan cards at the moment.

My suggestion is to pick an effect from the book you may be interested in performing and learn that effect, if it requires a hindu shuffle then great learn the thing. If it requires a false count learn that.

A trap many fall into is they start learning the moves just to learn the moves. After a year or so they have learned a lot of moves but have failed to perform a single effect.

Now I will back up and tell you to go back even further. Are you really just starting out? Go buy a svenagli deck, or a stripper deck, a simple coin trick, or any other simple cheap easy to do magic. Get it home, read the instructions play around with it until you get the knack of things and then start performing. The key element in magic is to start performing as soon as you possibly can. Otherwiswe I promise you will spend hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours reading watching and learning stuff you will never use and have very little to show for it, except perhaps the mirror you practice in front of.

Once you start performing your desire to do more will entice you to keep going.

One last thing. Don't not learn to fan the cards, just don't put so much pressure on yourself to do so. If you have the mechanics down practice while watching TV. It will happen.

Nothing much to add really to the advice that's already been given. Just stick with it, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. Three days is no time at all when it comes to learning the craft, just be patient (an attribute which is a must in magic). Follow the other posters advice above and you'll be on the right track, and stick in with your books.

As for the Hindu - I'm not exactly sure what the problem is without more details, so I'm going to speculate. It may be down to one of the following two points :

If the cards are falling from the front, it may be the left first finger - make sure this is in position as shown in the book, this stops the cards falling from the front and keeps things neat.

If they are falling from the back then its probably just the position of your hands - the pictures in the book are slightly misleading, in that they show the hands as they'd look if they were held at about chest level. The hands should actually be held lower, usually about belly button level. The left hand should be tilted down slightly (emphasis on slightly). This tilt, combined with the placement of the left first finger sort of boxes the cards in and ensures they can't drop.

Hope that helps. Welcome to the forum.


Jim

I wish I would have had this kind of advice when I was starting out. (I remember being excited when I got my first VHS magic tape from A-1.)
If you are serious about your magic you will put in the time it takes to master your moves- 3-4 days is nothing.
Stick with Wilson's book, learn everything in it. Books will allow you to use your imagination and perform effects in your own style. This is so important when you first start out, resist the temptation to simply copy someone elses performance.
There are no shortcuts, put in the time, the years will fly by anyway.

thank you all for the replies and tips!
I have always just been slightly insecure/overly aware that my coordination and dexterity suck, so I just wanted to clarify whether i should have been able to perform these basics by now.

I am really only looking into card and coin magic at the moment, not general magic.

The thing with wilson's book, I feel is kind of briefly flies over the mechanics in what I Assume are very important foundations (how to hold a deck properly, finger placements, types of shuffles etc) whereas indexing through card college 1, this seems to be the entire book.
Is there any reason you guys are advising wilson over card college or royal road to card magic?

You should read all of those but you will get the most from them if you have a foundation under you. Can I ask why just coins and cards? What are you trying to demonstrate? Skill and dexterity or conjuring and sorcery?

nachom wrote:thank you all for the replies and tips!
I have always just been slightly insecure/overly aware that my coordination and dexterity suck, so I just wanted to clarify whether i should have been able to perform these basics by now.

I am really only looking into card and coin magic at the moment, not general magic.

The thing with wilson's book, I feel is kind of briefly flies over the mechanics in what I Assume are very important foundations (how to hold a deck properly, finger placements, types of shuffles etc) whereas indexing through card college 1, this seems to be the entire book.
Is there any reason you guys are advising wilson over card college or royal road to card magic?

Because when you are starting out there is no clearer book than Mark Wilson. How to hold a deck is almost impossible to put in print seeing as we all have different hands, plus it sounds like you are making a big deal out of something that is going to come quite natuarally. Pick up a deck of cards in the Dealers grip, as shown in almost every illustration in the book. Don't worry about how far your fingers are seperated. Don't over think and don't worry. Learn some effects from Mark Wilson's book and as your knowledge base and ability expand then go for the other books. It is so easy to get overwhelmed.

I've yet to see any of the basics in Mark Wilson't book that are just 'glossed over' if they are it is because it is probaly not that big a deal to begin with. Don't start creating reasons as to why you are moving slow (and you moving slow is only your perception) don't start making excuses as to why you are having trouble with something. Otherwise all you will have is a pile of excuses why you can't perform.

Very few people can sit in front of a piano for the first time and just play, or pick up a paint brush and become an artist. magic is the same. It takes time and practice

As I said before, just choose an effect in the book and learn that effect and perform it in front of people, or an easy store bought effect. Do that and the rest will follow.

thanks guys, i've been sticking at it for a while and have picked up on it . You're right, I was just being a little impatient that is all.

James Knight wrote:You should read all of those but you will get the most from them if you have a foundation under you. Can I ask why just coins and cards? What are you trying to demonstrate? Skill and dexterity or conjuring and sorcery?

My perception of magic outside coins and card are routines such as really long handkerchief, making a rose come out of your sleeve and other standard routines that you see in movies (By all means correct me if im wrong, any video demonstrations?).
I am really new to the magic community so haven't had time to explore it. As of the moment coin and card magic is really quick, fun and inexpensive, whilst still having a 'wow' factor. I've seen things like pure smoke and gecko, which admittedly are cool, but not something i want to look into as of any time soon (maybe one year down the track).

Oh, I do actually find mentalism really interesting, it seems like quite an advanced area of magic, and more like an add on to standard tricks and routines which i'll definietly give a shot as I learn.


Is there much else out there besides coin and card magic a part from what I've mentioned? Could you provide an example?

Sponge magic
Cups and balls
Metal bending
Effects with keys

ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .

also, my friend told me a card vanish where you slide your hand forward and rub the card in a motion so that the one immediately behind it comes over it.

does this simple vanish have a name? I think my technique is wrong because despite lots of practice it seems to have a sloppy appearance

nachom wrote:ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .

also, my friend told me a card vanish where you slide your hand forward and rub the card in a motion so that the one immediately behind it comes over it.

does this simple vanish have a name? I think my technique is wrong because despite lots of practice it seems to have a sloppy appearance

Sounds like an Erdnase colour change.

Yes, it sounds like the Erdnase Change. Check you tube for demonstrations which will help you with timing etc. Be very wary of "tutorials" though, its better to avoid these if you want to learn properly. The original can be found in Expert at the Card Table.

Nothing wrong with cards and coins. You may find as you progress that you become interested in other areas aswell. But if your interests are cards and coins then just stick with them - you won't learn properly if you're not interested in what you're learning.

Oh, and Mentalism is not an advanced form of magic. There are advanced techniques and methods, just as there are advanced methods and techniques in traditional close-up. In fact every branch of magic will have its effects that are for the beginner, and those which are seen as advanced. Mentalism is no different.

Jim