talkmagic.co.uk

nachom wrote:ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .

also, my friend told me a card vanish where you slide your hand forward and rub the card in a motion so that the one immediately behind it comes over it.

does this simple vanish have a name? I think my technique is wrong because despite lots of practice it seems to have a sloppy appearance

Please define, 'lots of practice'

I don't really care how long you have been practicing because you could be practicing 22 hours a day but if you are practicing wrong then you are just practicing your mistakes. (and the reality is you will be 'practicing' the rest of your life provided you stick with it).

So what I care about is the quality of your practicing. Have you learned the basic mechanics of the sleight? And are you sure you understand the mechanics. Let us assume yes. Can you yet put those mechanics into practice? If no, then you simply have to sit down and go through it all step by painful step. If yes and it just seems sloppy then you really have to go back and take a look at the mechanics again, you also have to study your flow and your timing.

Are you just practicing over and over again? Stopping and starting all the time. If so then stop because you are probably practicing your mistakes.

Build a little routine around it that way you get a sense of timing, of misdirection. A move take on a whole new life when you put it into the context of an effect. Also with a routine and a little bit of patter you will have a definte beginning and end so you can go all the way through without stopping. Just pushing through the mistakes, because in front of an audience you have one shot. just one.

Are you speeding through the move or moving at a nice relaxed pace. Don't run. Erdenase change is not a move of speed, (very few moves are) it is about finess and flow.

And laslty are you zipping through moves? ie learning one then running to another, then back to the first, then on to another? It is pretty much the mistake many make. Learn an effect and keep with it till it is done. Learn the moves that are required to acheive that effect. Then once you are happy and you have started performing that effect in front of a lay audience. Choose another.

If you find that slow and boring. Then you have a whole other problem.

nachom wrote:ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .

I found that sponge work really helped my coin slights but do what you enjoy.

bmat wrote:

nachom wrote:ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .
So what I care about is the quality of your practicing. Have you learned the basic mechanics of the sleight? And are you sure you understand the mechanics.

And laslty are you zipping through moves? ie learning one then running to another, then back to the first, then on to another? It is pretty much the mistake many make. Learn an effect and keep with it till it is done. Learn the moves that are required to acheive that effect. Then once you are happy and you have started performing that effect in front of a lay audience.

Yes, I agree with you. I'm was sure my technique was incorrect since it wasn't coming off smoothly (which according to the few tutorials I saw, I was right about).

I've gotten up to page 60 of mark wilson's book in somewhere around a week. Is this considered zipping through them? The first few tricks are really basic so I'd think not, I can perform most of the one's i've learned without looking back, but at the same time i''ve not been spending more than 2 consecutive nights practicising the same trick. But when it comes to things like techniques, eg. Hindu shuffle, flash force, hindu glimpse, I've been constantly going over them whilst trying to learn new tricks.

soveda wrote:

nachom wrote:ah yeah, not at all interested to be honest. Card and coins are where it's at .

I found that sponge work really helped my coin slights but do what you enjoy.

I've never even heard of sponge magic or what you can do with it. Good for dexterity?

jim ferguson wrote:
Oh, and Mentalism is not an advanced form of magic. There are advanced techniques and methods, just as there are advanced methods and techniques in traditional close-up. In fact every branch of magic will have its effects that are for the beginner, and those which are seen as advanced. Mentalism is no different.

Jim

[/quote]

Ah right. I had just assumed it was advanced because of this little stigma around it, and also because I noticed that the mentalism boards are invite only and restricted to certain members who have displayed certain skills/interest. Is there any particular reason behind this?

Thanks for the help, and yes it was the Erdnase change which I was talking about.

nachom wrote: I noticed that the mentalism boards are invite only and restricted to certain members who have displayed certain skills/interest. Is there any particular reason behind this?

As with the Magicians Only Area, our Mentalists Only Area is a restricted area as there are usually methods and techniques under open discussion which wouldn't be possible in a public area. Several excellent commercial releases have been developed in those areas so a bit of secrecy is essential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBtM3eHHsls

The above in Kenton Knepper's sponge ball routine, I really like it.
There is something about sponge balls/bunnies that really engages an audience.
When I have done walk around people follow to see the bunnies again even though they have seen it and know what happens and even if they know how it is done they don't seem to care!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bCZv2ozQD8&sns=em
Piff the magic dragon's bunnies routine. Fab!

Am I going senile? I thought there was a sponge ball routine in the Mark Wilson book.

I am not much of a fan of coin magic (I've done some in the past and any disc that's about the right size still gets classic palmed), but I love sponge ball stuff. I learned from a Paul Daniels set in the early 80s, and bought his supplemental book of additional moves too. I'm a bit rusty these days, but could probably get back up to speed in a bit, as I used to do so much.

The good things about sponges are that they are very visual (normally bright and colourful), pretty easy to handle, fun and you can do lots of stuff that involves spectators, including having the magic happen in their hands. The downsides are that they can take up a fair bit of pocket space (no one, ahem, wants crushed balls even if they do return to their proper shape over time), at least compared with a few coins and they are clearly something a magician owns. There are some nice explanations for what sponge balls are (clown noses, protons, Martians), but ultimately, they are items a magician owns. It never bothered me!

The reason mentalism is sometimes thought of as an advanced art is not really because of the techniques, but because it takes skill to present it well. It is partly because mentalism can be portrayed as real (or possibly real) in a way that colour changing cards are not and the benefit of this can be spoiled by poor performance. It is also partly because mentalism has huge potential to bore the heck out of an audience. It has relatively limited plots and underlying effects compared to normal magic and there can be a lot of talking and not much action. An experienced performer should be able to deal with these issues. I know regular magic takes presentation skill too, but I think it is more forgiving overall, by virtue of having more of a visual wow/fun factor.

There is a sponge ball routine in Mark Wilson and it's a very good one . Sponge balls are great fun, some people see them as childrens magic but I can tell you that adults enjoy them as much as children do.

Mentalism isn't technically particularly difficult but what is difficult is the presentation of it. There's no 'one is better than they other' when it comes to mentalism and magic, don't let yourself get drawn into that line of thinking. They're both different and take different skills to perform well.