talkmagic.co.uk

Can I ask, out of all my magic kids love me. Ive got a large family of neices and nephews and my mum and dad are foster careers but I was wondering if I were to ever try to further myself and preform to kids. What advice would you give for kids who are little terrors and won't behave at all or sit still and may even try touch your props. For example children fostered in the past have had bad behavioural problems. What would you do to solve the problem espicially if the kid in example are maybe the birthday boy or girl.

Try to keep a good ratio of adults to children, perhaps?

Never be afraid to stop - worst thing I think is to try and soldier on.

fiftytwo wrote:Try to keep a good ratio of adults to children, perhaps?

Never be afraid to stop - worst thing I think is to try and soldier on.

Thank you for the advice but does that not reflect on the magician. If I were to stop half way through a show because of one kid, inpaticular if its that kids party.
have you yourself ever had an auidience of kids where some have psychological problems like ADHD or other similar problems.

Mark Lewis has posted many tips and advice about performing when children are present.

Mandrake wrote:Mark Lewis has posted many tips and advice about performing when children are present.

Thank you,
Could you suggest any of his posts that would be helpful in regards to my question inpaticular.

firstly assign one parent to be the local Prentiss i.e. they are responsible for the behaviour of the children, usually the one who paid you, this should be written in your contract or confirmed before your show.
remember you are not an appointed social worker or care giver in this instance you are hired help and as such your bound by the rules of non interference or you could be sued, your verbal / written contract should also state that any miss behaviour of the clients either children or adults will result in the show stopping until the local paresis has done there job, failure to do so will result in you leaving the venue without giving a refund.

you would not expect a builder to use a band saw whilst several kids were chucking there toys at it would you, the builder would just pack up and go home, you should not expect anything less from the parents or yourself, if you don't have the confidence to stand up for your rights as a service provider you will end up very poor indeed. (spoken in kindness and with respect for the trade, not to be read in harsh tones)

Anjorno wrote:

fiftytwo wrote:Try to keep a good ratio of adults to children, perhaps?

Never be afraid to stop - worst thing I think is to try and soldier on.

Thank you for the advice but does that not reflect on the magician. If I were to stop half way through a show because of one kid, inpaticular if its that kids party.
have you yourself ever had an auidience of kids where some have psychological problems like ADHD or other similar problems.

I don't mean "pack up and go home", I mean - if a child has walked up behind you and is going through your props, stop what you're doing and address their behaviour.

fiftytwo wrote:

Anjorno wrote:

fiftytwo wrote:Try to keep a good ratio of adults to children, perhaps?

Never be afraid to stop - worst thing I think is to try and soldier on.

Thank you for the advice but does that not reflect on the magician. If I were to stop half way through a show because of one kid, inpaticular if its that kids party.
have you yourself ever had an auidience of kids where some have psychological problems like ADHD or other similar problems.

I don't mean "pack up and go home", I mean - if a child has walked up behind you and is going through your props, stop what you're doing and address their behaviour.

Sorry I didn't understand. What if the child was to continue their behaviour after adressing the situation with the adult in charge and it didn't resolve the childs behaviour?

All good answers so far. Some things that help me are

Clear rules at the start of the show, eg. a safety line to sit behind, "I'll pick children to help me that are sitting quietly and sensibly."

Managing behaviour throughout the show, eg. "Ok, I'm looking for someone who can help me, someone who is sitting sensibly... etc..." or "This time, don't shout out, but put your hand up if... " It's all script. Another good idea, "This next trick (colouring book) is one of my favourites. If you have seen me or another magician perform it before then don't spoil the surprise for those who haven't but do watch carefully and at the end, you can tell me if I did it right."

If there is someone being disruptive, then I will tell them what I need them to do, and why! eg. "I need you to sit down, because the children behind can't see the show."

Anjorno wrote:

Mandrake wrote:Mark Lewis has posted many tips and advice about performing when children are present.

Thank you,
Could you suggest any of his posts that would be helpful in regards to my question inpaticular.

I did look but I got fed up and gave up. I am sure that if ye seek ye shall find.

Anjorno wrote: Could you suggest any of his posts that would be helpful in regards to my question inpaticular.

Best way would be to use the Search function and limit results to Mark Lewis as Author. There will still be loads of stuff to wade through but it'll be worth it.

One of the older posts on here about entertaining youngsters is at ftopic16205.php - could be a start for you.

Mandrake wrote:Best way would be to use the Search function and limit results to Mark Lewis as Author. There will still be loads of stuff to wade through but it'll be worth it.

Use search terms such as kids, kid, child, children and children's and select "search for any of these terms" along with putting Mark Lewis as author (you must use the advanced search). I just did a test search with only "kids" as the search term and found lots of relevant posts.

Some fairly hopeless advice here (Jing aside).

First, you need to establish that this is a fun event but there are rules. You don't allow food during the performance, and don't perform in the play room, or allow kids to have toys with them. That stops a lot of the problems.

As Jing says, you use a bit of subtle bribery. You let the kids know that you will pick your volunteers from those who are behaving themselves.

The truth is that you rarely get problem kids. But if you do, consider how a good teacher would handle it. Would she stop the class and ask for the loco parentis? Of course not. Be firm but not aggressive. Make it clear to the troublemaker that he is being disruptive, and it has to stop. If you have a solid show that the kids are enjoying firmness is normally enough to get the odd hyper kid under control. Pause the effect (don't stop the show) and get the kid to sit down and shut up.

Then keep on top of the situation. Every time the kid starts to stand up again, or move, or shout, immediately face him and tell him to sit down. You might have to stay on top of him for the entire hour, but he will get the message and behave.

In fifteen years of doing this full-time I have only once needed to have a kid removed. So don't worry too much about it.

I still can't find what I wrote on here so I raided another site where I was pontificating on these matters. And actually I think I wrote the same piece somewhere on here too but this should save you all the trouble of searching here, there and everywhere. It takes up a lot of space but I think it is worth it.
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Kid Control

I have decided that I am going to tell you how to control children whether you want to hear it or not. After all, the knowledge is badly needed.

The most important thing you do is before you even get there. Always send out a little flyer to the parents who book you. This advice will also work to a lesser degree to a larger group like the scout bunch, but is especially good for birthday parties. The flyer is sent with your letter of confirmation. It is headed "hints, tips and suggestions."

Actually, this is a polite way of saying "rules and regulations". Here you put all your requirements such as "no presents opened during show" or "no candies or food given out during show." You word it more politely than this, but you say what you require and put it in a "suggestion" wording rather than a direct order. What you put in the flyer is up to you.

I usually have some hint about the parents yapping in another room or shutting up if they want to watch the show. I word it more politely of course. If you hate being videod during your performance this is where you put it (personally I don't give a damn!).

If you don't perform outdoors you put in the flyer also. In fact anything you want which could make the show easier for you. I make sure that there is a proviso about 2 year olds not being allowed to wander and wreck the show.

When I first started doing kid shows I would get quite a bit of trouble settling the kids and controlling silly parents who would distract the kids during the show giving out food plus the kids playing with squeakers and noisemakers, etc. Once I used this flyer idea all this stopped. It also works with bigger venues but to a lesser degree, but send it out anyway.

The next thing I do is to have a "magic line" so that the kids don't come across it and enter the performing area. Some performers use actual rope or even duct tape. I don't bother. I simply draw an imaginary line and if the brats even put a leg over it I say "you've come across the magic line." The magic won't work if you come across the magic line!" I have even had other kids reprimand their friends if they come across the line! On the odd occasion when you invite a kid up to help the other kids might remark that they have crossed the line. No doubt these brats will grow up to be Government bureaucrats. At any rate you simply say "they are allowed to cross the line if they come up to help the magician."

I have used a technique of Clayton Rawson's saying "the quietest one can help me do the next trick" and the "when I count to 3 will you all say shhh........." These two techniques work like magic in controlling the kids. The last one is more for the adults chattering at the back but will also work when the kids are getting out of hand.

Sometimes it is better to follow a rowdy trick with a quieter one to calm the kids down. I will admit that here I do not practice what I preach.

I have very good control techniques personally and can turn the noise tap off and on at will. However as is well known I am a genius and this option may not be generally available for lesser mortals. If the magician isn't Mark Lewis then it might be a good idea to look at the routining of your show if you find a "rowdy" problem. In other words perhaps alter the sequence of the tricks. If you have too many rowdy items together like I do then you may be asking for trouble.

I break the rule, but I am saying that you should do as I say, not do as I do. I do not practice what I preach, but here I am doing the preaching and not the practicing.

A good plan is the one I read in an old Gen magazine by Wilfrid Tyler. (VERY old!). Way before 1954 in fact. Wilfrid (who incidentally was the co-author of my favourite book on kids magic "Open Sesame") suggested a rolling stone approach of starting off quiet and gradually building up to a point where the noisy participatory stuff is nearer to the end of the show. A bit like a rolling stone gathering moss. Wilfrid recommended not charging in like a bull in a China shop in the beginning and you slowly build the show up to a frenzy. This keeps the kids from going nuts too early.

I use this technique once in every 5 shows. After three minutes I make a judgement. If I deem the kids to be too rowdy then I use the Tyler system. If I think they can be handled by my usual techniques then I just do what I normally do.

Another tip. If I am doing something where the kids are to call out something or other and if I find they are getting a bit rowdy I will ask them to whisper it. I get a lot of great mileage out of this whispering business and in fact I have a bit of a routined sequence for it which I can't be bothered describing. It does have the advantage of keeping the brats quiet for a few moments.

One very important point. Never ever show irritation at the kids. NEVER EVER! With the greatest of respect I think only twits from the Magic Cafe say things like "show consideration and be a little quieter." Something like that can be the kiss of death. Once you say something like that you are done for, more often than not. You have admitted defeat. Professionals NEVER admit defeat. If you are going to die a death you might as well do it with dignity.

Kids are like a pack of wolves. As soon as you tell them not to do something they will sense weakness and tear you apart. If you order a kid about they will do all in their power to disobey the order especially when you are supposed to be entertaining them. That is why my "promise you won't laugh" gag with the Bongo hat works so well!

When you step out of character to tell the kids off you are breaking the illusion. I never tell the kids off or show the slightest irritation even if I am seething inside and want to strangle the little brats. I am the pro and I am supposed to be able to handle anything. I absolutely hate it when I see videos or witness live performances of so called "magicians" telling the kids to behave themselves. I cringed when the late Brian Flora in his awful kid show video told the kids that he wanted them all to be quiet because he didn't tolerate his own kids misbehaving.

So how do I control the kids without telling them to shut the hell up and behave themselves. Simple! I con them into behaving! Bribery and corruption go a long way. They want the magic money (Ed Harris giveaway). They want to help the magician. They want a balloon animal. They want the attention of the magician.

There is only one person present who can give them it. Me! So they had better bloody behave themselves otherwise they aren't getting it. Carrot rather than stick.

However the greatest key of all in handling kids and stopping them acting like brats is a metaphysical one and hard to put into words. I will try though.

Sincerity.

If the kids sense that you like them they will like you. And if they like you they won't want to screw up your show. You are their friend. They won't want to upset a friend.

Leipzig's famous advice about audiences apply more especially for kids than any other type of audience even though Nate himself probably didn't have kids in mind when he said it. He said "if they like you, they will like your act."

You can get by as a kids entertainer if you don't like kids. I have seen it happen. However if you actually like the kids it will be a tremendous and actually obvious advantage for you. If you like them they sense it and will love you in return providing you can make them laugh and have fun.

If they love you they are very unlikely to make your life a misery. Sincerity is the key to entertaining kids. They will sense it and be the most rewarding audiences you will ever have.

However, if they sense that you don't really want to be there and you don't really like them that much then may God have mercy on your soul.

Some bril advice from Mark and Tony, just a bit of anecdote from me:
Do not underestimate children, they want to be entertained and can be the hardest of audiences. Kids often do not have the assumptions and expectations that adults have that we rely on as magicians.
The "magic line" works well, ignoring heckling does not.
As has been said they want to be entertained and the pack will turn on the individual who is spoiling their fun doing the work of managing the child who is disruptive (as long as you have them on side.
If you need quiet, make them be noisy first and then bring it down.
Don't talk down to the kids and explain things. I don't wait until kids are noisy/disruptive explain at the start.
The most challenging child I have had to deal with is my own eldest son who wanted magic at his birthday but has seen a lot of effects and knows how they are done- he started trying to give away the ending of tricks etc, I tried to get him engaged as my co-magician but he was determined to spoil it.
On the other hand the other kids had all had magic sets for Christmas/birthdays they still enjoyed themselves despite having the "secrets" of many of the tricks and effects in their own houses.