talkmagic.co.uk

Hello there,

I've been somewhat absent from TalkMagic for a few weeks. I've been thinking about an idea that I have a feeling might be a bit impressive, but I have moral reservations about it too. Read on and I'll tell all.

I'm unashamedly self-taught in mentalism. I describe my stuff more as applied psychology than anything else. I can't conjure much, I simply don't have the aptitude despite recent weeks spent poring over Royal Road and practicing with various decks until my wrists hurt, so I'm stuck doing what I do, even though I'm happy with it.

I don't think it's immodest to say I've impressed, frightened and hopefully astounded people at parties and in the pub, but thanks to my skills and absolute discretion, I'm also one to whom people know they can tell their problems in complete confidence and possibly gain insight into them and their possible solutions. I help people get inside their minds and find new directions. This, to me, is the most satisfying effect I can produce! Sometimes, people want a chat rather than to pick a card!

Now, let's face it, in all forms of magic, it's the effect that's important. Indeed, we go to such lengths to obscure the cause of an effect that we voluntarily (and neccessarily) engage in informal international conspiracies of silence! This is clearly a good thing. After all, we're in the business of mysteries, and a spoilt mystery is dull and no fun.

That being the case, consider this: when someone goes to a "psychic", for guidance, by my definition they're actually getting an effect. Just as with magic, how the psychic produces that effect is immaterial. They may be genuine, genuinely deceiving themselves, or genuinely manipulating the situation. It doesn't really matter to the client if they get what they're after.

So, paradoxically, my idea is to produce a "psychological psychic" effect, delivering answers to life's problems as per a "real" psychic, but being up front about the basis for the "subtle arts" employed in the divination itself. If the accuracy of the effect is demonstrably as good or better than traditional psychic methods, should it matter that the cause is admittedly scientific in nature? The client is, after all, free to place whatever cause they want on the effect, despite what I say!

What does the board think? Is it right, wrong, selling out, a well-trod path, what? Criticise!

My own thoughts, unless I've mis-understood, is that you may need to be very careful.

What you describe sounds a bit like counselling. I maybe wrong. But peoples emotions and mental states of mind can be very fragile and vulnerable.

I wish you the very best but ... consider what might go wrong, as well as right. The human mind ( like mine ! ) is a complex beast !

Although you can argue that the client will interpret as they see fit, perhaps that's part of the issue. They may act on inferred advice, become dependant on you, etc. Just a thought, but better safe than sorry !

Regards,

Piers.

Hi Piers,

Gosh, yes, that's an interesting angle. I'm veering more towards the astonishment at uncovering hidden facts from childhood, etc. end of the spectrum with this. definitely entertainment and all open and above board.

Tomo wrote: but I have moral reservations about it too.

This should tell you all youe need too know..I'm not entirely sure what your idea is completely, but if you think it may be immoral, then it probably is (of course morality is subjective and relative)..

Entertainment and Mental health care are two seperate things..and should not be mixed..

Tomo wrote:my idea is to produce a "psychological psychic" effect, delivering answers to life's problems.

Someone who has true issues should see a trained professional (read doctor or trained therapist) not the pub bartender or the witty magician/pshychic

Keep your gifts for entertainment puposes only..
Now as long as you disclose that everything you do is for entertainment purposes only , fine..as a matter of fact you should make sure that you disclose that you are not clinically trained..

Offering psychological advice and charging a fee could in some cases be considered practicing medicine without a license

If someone comes to you with a genuine "life problem", it is your obligation, as a good person to recommend the appropriate therapy,

This isn't my field but I would say that, as long as you make clear that you don;t hold any kind of qualifications and that the advice you give is the same as that which may be given by any psychic except that you are being more truthful regarding its origin then you should be ok. However, if you have moral objections to it yourself, as others have said, then steer clear of the area as there is obviously something that you don't feel right about.

nickj wrote:This isn't my field but I would say that, as long as you make clear that you don;t hold any kind of qualifications and that the advice you give is the same as that which may be given by any psychic except that you are being more truthful regarding its origin then you should be ok. However, if you have moral objections to it yourself, as others have said, then steer clear of the area as there is obviously something that you don't feel right about.

I should have explained my moral problem a bit better originally, I see now. My idea is to be completely clear up front that there's absolutely no supernatural process or mysticism at play, but that it's possible to give a highly accurate reading using modern techniques alone. The moral problem is akin to disclosure.

Near where I live, you see, there's a locally renowned psychic. She actually has a waiting list ready to cross her palm with silver. (Someone offered to introduce me recently. I've seen her in the street/pubs/Tesco/etc for long enough over the years to mount a pretty convincing hot reading effect if that ever happens!) My moral dilemma really concerns damaging the business/reputation/whatever of people like that engaged in harmlessly telling people what they want to hear. Wouldn't it be like telling people how a locally performing magician performs feats of astonishing impossibility?

Mind you, if you know someone's getting a client to believe in them to take their money and respect, isn't thee a moral imperative to put them straight?

I see what you are saying...

You are affraid of Pshychic bashing? is that it?

Be straight forward and describe what you do and that it is an alternative to other methods...don't bash

If the information, or advice/guidance gained from both of you is the same, it is upto the subject to determine what to put more weight in..

blacksabre wrote:You are affraid of Pshychic bashing? is that it?

Not between pactitioners of mentalism over a pint or several