talkmagic.co.uk

I am really interested in learning the ideas behind this. I have been studying psychology and hypnosis but am still not sure how certain things are done. For instance, the evanglistic tricks derren brown did on "Messiah". I am mainly interested in knowing how to to the "pull" type effect where you pull someone from behind and they fall back with you. I have theorys but I am just not sure. If anyone can help point me in the right direction, I would greatly appriciate it.

Also, some good sources on mediumistic stunts. I know some, but how to make someone think they are a spirit talking through them and give out info they didnt know previously. (Yeah so I have been watching alot of recorded derren brown. Sue me.)

I'd just like to know where to get started.

Thanks.

(Dont worry. My moral standards prevent me from using any of this for evil.)

1011

You could ask some of those American TV Evangelists, the scary ones you see on satellite, how they do their 'tricks' ?

They'll probably just tell you that you have the Devil inside you, but you never know !

( Personally it's something I would steer well clear of... ).

Piers.

I agree. That kind of stuff already rubs me the wrong way. They've turned God into a money maker.
The stunts themselves could be put to good use in a non religious setting and people would probably respond okay to them. But that is treading on some dangerous ground and people may not react positively to it. It all depends on your angle.
I saw a documentary on that sort of thing a long time ago. From what I remember, it has to do a lot with picking people who are easily led, caught up in the moment, and very emotional. That, coupled with the fact that they are being watched by hundreds or thousands of people.
I also remember that they are almost always fed instructions of what to do by the speaker's "helpers"
During an interview (the guy's identity was disguised) he talked about building up the anticipation in their minds so that when he pushed on their head for them to fall back, their bodies released adrenaline and that is what they describe as the spirit coming into them...or something along those lines.
I personally think its a mockery and very sad, but this isn't the place to discuss those things so I won't.

Right, I disagree with the practice. I would just like to know how it works. Some of it I understand. I do alot with psychology. The things I can't figure out is the placing a hand next to someones head and causing an instant conversion. Or pulling on an imaginary rope behind them to cause them to fall back.

I don't in any way plan on actually converting anyone. Most of this is just a persuit of knowledge. I understand how to use NLP patterns to reframe someones thought, I am just not sure how DB does this non-verbally.

1011

Hello there.

Firstly, verbal is not the only form of communication. If you are trained in NLP, you'll know what I mean.

Secondly, you need a good book on stage hypnotism if you want to do the pulling back trick. Ormond McGill wrote the standard reference work some time ago, but it's still in print.

Thirdly, Brown is an entertainer. What you see on-screen is just an effect. The full footage is edited down to make an exciting show.

If the effect is in print as someone suggests then I wouldn't want to say too much incase I happen to be right in my supposition of how the pull effect is achieved...but this was just an observation I've made (and I'm sure so have others!) from everyday life:
It's really quite hard for you to stand still on a spot for a few minutes without adjusting (I'm sure thats spelled incorrectly!!) your balance! I thought about it for a while and realised that the person was always going to fall and Derren Brown enforced that with his own techniques and made it appear as if a miracle had happened... I think alot of the work he does is about making it appear as though he made more happen than he actually has... but then, that kind of applies to magic in general and is part of what makes it so good to watch!
Corindas "13 steps to mentalism" is a great resource for mentalism in general though I'm sure with practice, thought and the right presentation that it's possible to pull off many magical effects as though they are mediumisticalorific. Also, I'm sure there are books available on cold reading in particular if thats more your bag (just be aware of books meant for actors auditioning... I read that warning on a review on amazon!).

Hope this helps!

Interesting thread!

I went to a Marc Paul lecture earlier this week and was interested in his view, as was everyone else present, that one of the best weapons that a mentalist had in his arsenal was sleight of hand.

The mentalism demo that he then went onto give certainly was a good demonstration of this view and it was a killer routine.

He went onto say that most of the many hundreds or even thousands of youngsters that are trying to emulate Derren Brown and learn mentalism through NLP, cold reading etc. are doomed to fail unless they learn the basics of magic first.

Interesting view - any thoughts from the membership?

I ceretainly found it a particularly interesting argument!

I fully agree with you. NLP is not about magic, you might be able to sell yourself better as a magician with NLP but it is hard to know what to do with it unless you are the real thing. I sure it is no secret that alot of the tricks derren does arent done how derren says he does it.

It's really magic. We all know that.

dat8962 wrote:He went onto say that most of the many hundreds or even thousands of youngsters that are trying to emulate Derren Brown and learn mentalism through NLP, cold reading etc. are doomed to fail unless they learn the basics of magic first.

Interesting view - any thoughts from the membership?

I ceretainly found it a particularly interesting argument!

Absolutely spot on. You can make basic tricks look like seriously spooky mentalism given the right build up and patter.

Mind you, because kids tend to want a short cut and don't learn the basics, you can conrol a crowd of the little darlings with a couple of D'Lites if they start cutting up rough at the bus stop. Get the blue ones and claim to have stolen the strangely unconnected light off a chav charriot. Passing it through clothes is a scream, especially for girls, but not exactly mentalism...