Beginners look...various advice...

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Beginners look...various advice...

Postby maRk tHE mAGicK » Aug 11th, '05, 03:56



Ok this is the one.....

I'm kinda bored of reading reviews about a trick, then it going into what beginners should be buying, should be learning etc, and people agreeing or disagreeing etc and spiralling waaay off the subject. Maybe someone will agree with me? :? or maybe i'll get done by the vets?? :oops: :?

So, this thread I hope will be a good place for beginners to look, and for other members, so they can look here, and see what other members think rather tham trawling through to find out.

The subject, is where do beginners start....

I have read many posts telling newbies, to stay away from gimmicked decks, and coins, and learn the basic card handling skills, buy a book like RRTCM, and others who disagree.

My personal belief is that gimmicks for beginners? Go for it.

As I sometimes say (often) my first memorable trick, was scotch and soda (newbies, look it up its great www.alakazam.co.uk ) the reactions I got from laypeople, were astounding, there are many different things you can do with it. The thing beginners need to understand, is its about presentation and performance. I also bought the wizard, svengali, stripper, and rising deck with coin in a bottle, all in a set from a trip to Downtown Disney FL.

The confidence that performing these tricks gives you is astounding, and makes you want to learn more. Just from some of these tricks, people said things like, wow, you should be on tv etc. Granted, I did have card handling skills before I bought them because of my job, but not that much. Maybe if it hadn't been for these tricks and reactions, I may have given up.

After those, I didn't buy many gimmicked things, I bought the books, found things on the website, practised day and night, night and day, bored my Mrs to death (revived her now though ;) ) and finally joined magic circle.

These are only my opinions, and there will always be this site to get other peoples views before buying anything, and there is a lot of experiece here.

Would be good to hear other peoples views here. :)

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Postby Demitri » Aug 11th, '05, 07:26

My only problem with gimmicks and trick decks - is if you begin to rely on them and don't improve. Believe it or not, Mark - my start in magic came from the SAME PLACE you bought your first set from (I bought the same set, myself). I loved it. I would use my svengali all over the place. I'd drop jaws and I would love it.

But, as time went on, I got bored doing the same things over and over. So I looked deeper, and started on the road to sleight of hand and that kind of thing. This is a natural progression for anyone who has a profound interest in the art of magic.

And yes, the more you learn, the more a "purist" you become. I too have tried to push others away from gimmicks and trick decks - and even though I have done it, I still feel there is a place for such things. The Svengali can be used throughout your career - to greater effect when you have some handling ability.

I also sympathize with your view, considering my love of packet tricks. Packet tricks may be the only thing more despised than gimmick decks (just kidding). I have seen both sides of the argument. Good and bad, pros and cons.

Every gimmick, gaff, trick, prop has a place in magic. I think the problem comes from people tending to push their own opinions onto others. We're all guilty of this, but we must also take a few moments to realize that this art (at least to me) has no true standards. Nothing is taboo, nothing is set in stone. If a trick can be done without a gimmick or with it, it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what the people WATCHING think. Personally, I don't care what others use.

Just the other day, I was in a local shop and one of the staff demo'd a trick for me. He didn't know I already knew the effect, but I also noticed he used a gaff card to do the trick, where I can perform it without. In the end, it didn't matter. Even KNOWING how it was done, I was still amazed by how well he presented the effect.

So, to sum up this REALLY long reply - I think gimmicks are a wonderful part of the art. Amateur hobbyist (like me) all the way to professional. If you like using a gimmick or gaff, mark - go ahead and use it. Some people might scoff - but those people aren't your audience. Remember that. It's not just about what other magicians think. Value their opinions, respect their wisdom - but always keep in mind - your audience doesn't know about your gimmick. They haven't seen the gaff card or Svengali deck. All they saw - was some guy do something incredible with a coin, pack of cards, key, etc.

That's my two cents (barely worth half that, I know :lol: )

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Postby maRk tHE mAGicK » Aug 11th, '05, 13:53

Thats it!!!

You hit the nail on the head... we're not here to fool other magicians, or we shouldn't be anyways you said :
Personally, I don't care what others use


If its the same effect, does it matter how its done???? True I don't gimmicks so much now, only stuff like strangers gallery, and maybe decks for like room 101, or other menatlism effects. Excellent points you made up there Demitri.

So, you went to Florida store in downtown disney? I had the "Good Set" but put me out of my misery, what is the name of the shop, I've been trying to think of it for weeks, I can't find the carrier bag, it was 4 years ago!!! :(

P.S I recommend anyone whos anyone, to have an ID for if a trick goes wrong, hmmm, what was your card? Ah, I forgot, thats the one I put upside down in my deck last week. :D

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Postby wingman04 » Aug 11th, '05, 16:11

I posted this on another thread but copied it to this one. :)


A good website that will give name you a bunch of DVDs, books to buy is http://www.magictalk.com/beginners.htm# ... .%20Tricks
DVDs for a Beginner are Born to Perform by Oz Pearlman, which will teach you the basics of card handling, shuffling and some tricks.

Books for beginners are "Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic" by Mark Wilson ($12 on www.amazon.com) Modern Coin Magic by JB Bobo ($10 on Amazon) and Royal Road to Card Magic by Hugard and Braue($10).

The cheapest and best website that has free shipping in AMerica is www.penguinmagic.com --it also has many tricks that are cheap under $10 such as Emerge Triumphant, COlour Monte and others. Some good gaffed decks to buy are Stripper, Svengali and Invisible decks which can be found at this website for $5.49- cheapest on the net.
For UK there is http://www.magictricks.co.uk and http://www.alakazam.co.uk

I also asked the same questions, what to buy and where, and I have been told do buy BOrn TO Perform, Mark WIlsons Complete COurse in magic before buying tricks. THey teach u how to handle decks, shuffles, forces, various things.


Here are other forums that also addressed this question.
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic6622.php&highlight=
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic6555.php&highlight=
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic6425.p ... t=beginner

and A review of Born to Perform by Symtal- http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic6061.p ... rn+perform

YOu can also use hte search function and search for reviews and discussions about anything specific. I am also a beginner and will buy all the things that i mentioned in this post by the end of year...the main thing is to buy one thing and practice, practice, practice until your hands get sore Very Happy

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Postby MagicIain » Aug 11th, '05, 18:43

Nice thread, guys, and top advice too, but I can gurantee that newbies to the site will still ask the same old questions... :roll:

The fact you're even doing this proves it... if they can't be bothered to search in the first place, then they will never find this thread, either!

Sorry to p*** on your fire...

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Postby Demitri » Aug 12th, '05, 05:22

Mark - the name of the store is Magic Masters

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Postby rvoice100 » Aug 12th, '05, 09:46

demitri and mark, i got back from there 3 months ago. i got exactly the same set, this is what got me into magic im now (slowly) starting to try un gaffed tricks but boy is it hard. hooray for downtown disney for getting me started!!!

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Postby Sym » Aug 12th, '05, 13:15

Zack wrote:Nice thread, guys, and top advice too, but I can gurantee that newbies to the site will still ask the same old questions... :roll:

The fact you're even doing this proves it... if they can't be bothered to search in the first place, then they will never find this thread, either!

Sorry to p*** on your fire...


Ok. So why not get rid of none essential posts within the thread, and make it sticky?

=oP

~Sym~

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Postby mark_c1975 » Aug 12th, '05, 17:10

How about this for the new people to watch before posting?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

I think it's quite relevant, even though it's not about TM.

:D

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Postby wingman04 » Aug 12th, '05, 17:41

Ohh god that was hilarious. I agree...we should post it to a sticky..lol..so funny :D

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Postby Stephen Ward » Aug 12th, '05, 17:51

That is just brillant. In fact it is so good, we should start a new thread about it! :wink:

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Postby dat8962 » Aug 12th, '05, 23:45

Damn - am I impressed or what?

Not meaning to have a go Wingman but having been away for a few day's I've noticed that you've clocked up 127 posts in 12 days online! Wow - that's some going my friend :shock: .

I recall your first posts where you said that you were a newbie to magic, less than 2 weeks ago and now you're recommending tricks and DVD's etc.

It's nice to know that someone's taking notice :wink:

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It's not really an optical illusion - it just looks like one!
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Postby wingman04 » Aug 12th, '05, 23:49

Thanks, dat8962, I just posted what people told me to buy. :wink:

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