talkmagic.co.uk

Ninja wrote:Rune, any luck contacting Murpheys.
Seems no one is 100% positive on this topic.

Seems no one is even 10% positive ....and as the topic goes on number decreases

This is an interesting thread that has popped up since I've been away.

As previously stated, copyright laws are different depending on where you are in the world. Also, as they tend to be civil rather than criminal law so it depends on where the infringement takes place as to how you can take your legal action. Large scale copyrtight infringements tend to be treated as counterfit or copyright theft rather than plain infringement.

Different countries have different attitudes to copyright infringement and whilst you may get a judgement, it is often much harder to enforce that judgement and collect any award of damages if the infringer is in a different country. Where trade agreements exist, such as between EU countries it can be easier but trying to take legal action in the UK against someone in Singapore will be harder.

As to giving credits, again as stated, some inventors are happy with this whilst others will insist on a royalty so don't just assume that a credit is OK. However, if you infringe someone's copyright it is still up to them to find out and take action against you, assuming that they have the time or inclination to do this. Some professions or markets have trade association that do this on the copyright owners behalf for a fee.

The other side of the coin is the protection offered to the consumer and their right to complain about 'fake' goods that they have been sold. In the UK, the Trading Standards will take up cases where people haven't been provided with genuine items and it should be noted that after their investigation into people found selling items as a trader, they pass on their findings to Customs & Excise so that they can make sure that you're declaring your earnings for tax purposes.

The whole issue of copyright is like a bag of worms and If you're legitimately worried then I can only recommend that you speak to a lawyer that deals in intellectual property rights. there must be thousands of people who have fallen foul of copyright laws and paid dearly for their naivety

Today, I sent an email to my local magic ring (MCN - Magic Circle Norway) and asked about this. I also contacted 2 magic companies in Norway, to ask how they solved this.

I'll keep you updated

For your information, I talked to Joshua Jay about this today, and asked our exact questions, and his answers were very direct and clear. You cannot create a video of a move (just the move) or a routine which is a true copy of a original one, without asking the creator of the routine/move first. This is part of the copyrights. Though, let's say you have figured out a couple of new moves for a ambitous card routine, that wouldn't necessary fall into this copyright law, but again, it really depends on your routine. Meaning again, if you have a brand new cool routine, which uses a, let's say la paul spread (which you also explain in the explanation of a video), you wouldn't necessarily break the copyright law, as the focus would rather be on the routine, not this single move.

Hope this answers some stuff. As I understood Joshua, don't even try to play with these rules, you might get into serious problems.

rcarlson - "You cannot create a video of a move (just the move) or a routine which is a true copy of a original one, without asking the creator of the routine/move first."

Surely this doesn't mean just making videos to show off!!!

But anyway thank you rcarlson for answering some questions. But now we have more depth qestions. Like if you look back on page three about my Nemesis problem, can you answer that. Like when does modifying a trick get to the point where it's yours.

Blade, videos on here aren't a big issue. As I've said before in this thread - it's an infringement upon copyrights if you intend to sell it, or in some way profit from it.

If you're just posting a video on a forum like Talk magic, just performing an effect, then that's generally not going to get you in trouble.

However, as soon as you show a video EXPLAINING how to do it, then you get into hot water. Even if you pass out the explanation for free, you can still be sued without the permission of the creator.

I'd say we're alright posting videos on here - at least I hope so!!

Surely this doesn't mean just making videos to show off!!!

Of course not. If you had read the whole thread, we are talking about selling videos with explanations, like Penguin does.

So If I understand right even a move (Physical action) can have a copyright?I don't think that this is correct...but then again..I might be wrong...

Well let's say, you tape a explanation of "Elmsley count", and sell it. You would get in serious problems.

But again..can physical action have copyright?You could sell elmsley and change the name...but to me it is very logical that physical actions cannot have copyrights...this way someone could get copyright protection on waving your hand and you would have to pay him every time you wave your hand

I'm still confused...

Say you invented your own trick and you used the elmsley count in it. And when you sold this trick you also sold the elmsley as it is nessesary in performing it. What then?

This is what I have found on PubTricks.com

The Law

A Magic Trick cannot have a copyright. The trick its self is a series of moves and actions, this is very much like a cooking receipe. Physical actions cannot have a copyright.

The actual video / book can have a copyright. A video / dvd / book of magic can have a copyright just as any other book or film. The solutions of the tricks fall into the above and are not protected. The actual names of tricks or phrases can be protected and registered as trade marks.

A gimmick or device. These can be protected by patents. If you have something that is unique you can apply for a patent that protects the function of the design. The device or idea cannot be protected if it is determined as 'obvious'.

Finally after over fifty posts, it seems that almost all questions have been answered!!!

But now in response to your last post Point, this makes it sound like anything in the Elcyclopedia of Card Flourishes for example, could never be copyrighted. Only the DVD and title truly belong to Jerry. All his XMC are up for grabs.

I don't mean to through down all posts, but I want the hard facts on the matter, so I ask the wierd questions.

Well, I don't see why a physical action shouldn't be copyrighted.

The point here is that it has to be new. For example, everybody already KNOWS what waving their hand is, so it's not new and you can't copyright it.

However, if you invent, say, a new control to top, then I think that can be copyrighted.

Don't trust me though...

Kati

Ok. Is pubtricks to be trusted? Where is this "law" from? Is it their own interpretation of some stuff? As long as they are not refering to some law written down somewhere, I would never trust this. All magicians I have asked, are saying the opposite, so why trust a couple of lines at a "pub"-site? Also, take this into consideration, how's your moral? Why should YOU earn money on a move invented by, let's say Elmsley?

Tha fair solution to this would of course be to talk to the magicians you are using moves/tricks from, and get their permission. That would be fair, honest and morally correct.

Also remember, the "law" they are refering to, might be different from country to country. So don't trust this at all. Particularly if they don't refer to some written stuff where this is proven to be the "law", not invented by themself.