talkmagic.co.uk

In that there is no set area for dealing with this topic, I thought I'd open up a thread to get some feedback from you all. Granted, some of you know me from other forums or my articles @ VISIONS and TOP HAT, but there are several here I do not know and I feel as though some questions exist.

So, if any of you want to gain some insights from an old fart that's been doing this stuff a very long time, feel free to chime in.

well, I'm not much of a mentalist myself, but when I dabble I tend towards telepathy style presentation, though I also use a number of the other ideas on the poll such as swami writers and billet work.

(by the way, I have moved this from Magician Talk here to Miscellaneous as we like to keep the other section for Talk about magicians rather than talk by them!)

I'm in two minds over this because personally I love seeing a good PK routine (e.g. Banachek) but I think "Mind Reading" can get some of the strongest reactions possible. Therefore I voted for Mind Reading as my favourite.

While we're on the subject and without wanting to rile you Craig (we know what happens then ) I think any Mentalist who portrays his "performances" as Spiritualistic (Seance/Channelling) is immoral and wrong. This doesn't include those performers who bill themselves as Fake Psychics, because they are openly stating that it is fake, but drawing on that in a toungue in cheek way.

GoldFish wrote:This doesn't include those performers who bill themselves as Fake Psychics, because they are openly stating that it is fake, but drawing on that in a toungue in cheek way.

Is that your get-out clause as not to dis-credit Mr Brown? ehehe

Not being hugely into Mentalism, would you perhaps explain in a little more detail the catagories stated above, some are obvious to me i.e. Mind Reading .. how ever some of the others i am not so sure about what they are, do you maybe have some examples i can look at?.

Thanks guys,

Could you also perhaps reccomend some good starting points for me if i were to venture into mentalism? books, dvd's etc etc.

Rob

Do we really need a new forum specifically for this? Other forums specialise in mentalism or have a much longer tradition of discussing it with more archive info.

Just wonder what the point of starting something limited here when other places are always going to do it better because they've been around longer and attract more of a 'mentalism' crowd?

goldfish wrote:I think any Mentalist who portrays his "performances" as Spiritualistic (Seance/Channelling) is immoral and wrong

As that had nothing to do with the topic in hand, I think we should leave that out of this particular discussion for now. Please...

The poll is interesting enough, but it's difficult to vote on any one in particular as they all seem to be interrelated. For example, billet work from the spectators point of view is pretty much telepathy isn't it? Certainly billet work I see as one of the most important skills, but not a skill that anyone watching should know about.

Also there is the new breed of mentalist now (well maybe not new. Is anything new?) who likes to go with the whole, body language/muscle reading/suggestion approach to things, ie mentalism that for many lay people can be just that little bit more credible than the more psychic approach.

Personally, I like mixing the two. I like to start off explaining that everything I do will use the BL/MR/Suggestion techniques, but always move into things that can't be explained. I never claim I am psychic, and yet never deny it either.

the mighty nubbin wrote:Just wonder what the point of starting something limited here when other places are always going to do it better because they've been around longer and attract more of a 'mentalism' crowd?

Because, like it or not mentalism IS another genre of magic, and therefore free to be discussed here. Remember though not everyone has to take part in every discussion...

I do enjoy many of the fields that are in the poll but have gone for PK as I do more PK work than any of the others.

I've voted ideomotor in the poll, as this is the area that I have had the most success in from those listed above. I recently bought BeyondESP II and, with very little rehearsal (stupid of me I know) used an ideomotor reflex during the effect 3SP (at least I think it was 3SP...) and succeeded.

There seems to be very little input (no pun intended) from the performer when using ideomotor response - I've only done it once, but the Haunted Key does work in spectator's hands. If you find the right volunteer, it's very powerful stuff.

Then again, considering the poll above, I suppose I have trouble with the confidence in 'selling' the idea of telepathy, or psychokinesis and so on. I have the M5, but wouldn't know how to convince a spectator things can be moved using mind-power. I know many mind-reading and telepathy effects, but again, find it hard to weave the right stories to fully convince any spectator.

Whoah, what a deep post. Mind-bending stuff, this mentalism! ha ha ha...

I guess I'd go for Telepathy (and certainly voted that way) but the average spectator wouldn't (or shouldn't!) know whether you're using a TT, a billet switch, a peek device, cold reading, pre-show work or other method to obtain the information to be revealed. Things like PK Touches can be very, very effective when done right so PK work is in there for me as well. Things like mentally divining words or numbers 'freely' thought of by use of peek/impression devices, binary systems etc. are probably what ring my bell more than the other categories - but it's a close run race.

The one aspect which seems to be fairly clear to me (until you guys show me where I'm wrong!), I have no doubt that a skilled magish could do linking rings, cups and balls, some card tricks, sponge stuff, rope work etc in the same set and it would look great. However, I can't imagine a skilled Mentalist divining information under apparently impossible circumstances then, as an encore, whipping out some silks and making half a dozen doves appear - it just doesn't belong in the same area. For this reason I'm sure that Mentalism is, to a great extent, separate to anything else even though it may use exactly the same systems and methods as 'normal' magic.

OK, I'm ready for the flamings…..

Interesting... I admit, I probably got things a bit overly saturated and confused in creating the poll, but at least it got the ball to rolling.

Goldfish made a comment that must be addressed (no reason to duck). The poll lists Seance & Trance Channel styled mentalism which is outlined in many of the classic tomes of mentalism including Corinda, the primary "bible" to the craft and even Water's mentions it to a great level in Mind, Myth & Magic. It is a part of Mentalism but more specifically, it is a part of theater. Those that are uncomfortable with it, shouldn't do it and those that are going to present it as a spoof, need to be shot (they're missing the point).

This is the aspect of mentalism that lent itself so well to what's become Bizarre or Haunted Magick, which is kind of a unique blend between the two worlds.

My list mixed up techniques, which I want to talk about, with theme or concepts... the approaches we take when performing.

As one who is known primarily as a Telepathist/Intuitive/Mind Reader my primary tools are the billet, anagram techniques, verbal controls and of course Muscle Reading.

I used to do a lot of PK type work but some personal challenges prevent me from doing such these days. Too, I feel that far too many people are doing it and doing it poorly. They've taken a concept that was once seen as prime proof of paranormal manifestations and reduced it to being little other than a parlor trick and a poor one at that. Which brings us to Merlin's post...

I loathe the mixing of solid mentalism with magic. That is not to say that we can't do Mental Magic as part of a Magic Show but it's in knowing the difference. The difference is rather simple however... look at what a psychic does and look at the effect you want to deliver, if you can't do what the psychic did as cleanly and without a bunch of malarky and "props" it's probably Mental Magic.

Mental Magic is not bad, I use a lot of it! I sew it into my act so as to deliver psychological relief to the audience. In other words, I'm doing material that's an obvious trick simply for the sake of fun and amusement. It may still retain a psychic theme, but it's obviously a gag and little other.

Mentalism, at least in my book, is clean and can be done at the drop of a hat without a heck of a lot of prep work. If you have a character that's known for bending flatware, you can do it on the spot... If you're a Mind Reader, you can do it on the spot... you are not dependent upon gadgets or having a deck of cards, you're just ready to go.

As Merlin has pointed out, going from a solid Q&A act into something akin to the Blackstone Circus Finale just ain't cosher. It detracts from both sides of things and confuses your audience.

I'll get a breakdown on things to help clarify and post it later.

I'm relatively new to mentalism in that I've only been 'playing around' with it for about a year and a half. I learnt a fork bending routine as an addition to my close up magic (yep - I'm guilty) but I've found it's taken on a mind of it's own in that it really seems to suit me and I found it was the most powerful thing I did. I then got everything I could get my hands on dealing with metal bending at the same time reading Corinda, Anneman, Banachek, Bob Cassidy, Kenton Knepper, Luke Jermay etc. (let's not forget a number of articles on Online Visions..)
Although I wouldn't call myself a mentalist (a strange term) - I really like the thinking that goes along with mentalism. I've found that a lot of my magic has now become 'mind tricks' and I'm slowly starting to build more and more mentalism into my restaurant gig.

I understand the distinction between mentalism and mental magic - but I'm not to religious about it. I find that I can quite easily switch between doing sleight of hand magic to entertain kids in the restaurant and then do the 'more serious stuff' for the adults. They seem to get the distinction. If I do a card trick, of which I do very few. it will either be a 'mind trick' - or I'll explain that this is just sleight of hand.

I think what's important is that I'm finding what really works for me and I'm experimenting with a lot of stuff to see if it fits. For now I'm happy with that.

Hmm. Personally, I'm sort of migrating from mentalism to the mainstream, but keeping a psychological stance. I wouldn't say I prefer a specific branch of mentalism over others. I think the effect is the important thing and I think a blend of approaches is best.

goldfish wrote:I think any Mentalist who portrays his "performances" as Spiritualistic (Seance/Channelling) is immoral and wrong

most magicians don't claim that they magically change the ink on the card, so why should the mentalist claim they can talk to the dead?

but i agree with bananafish who said not to get into an argument about this

personally i prefer simple mind reading. i bought liquid metal by morgan strebler, and its reactions werent nearly close to a good ESP routine

I enjoy performing both magic and mentalism and have found that where many magic tricks are met with a "How did you do that?" response, a good mentalism routine has many people actually believing you posess uncanny supernatural powers.
I voted for PK, as I really enjoy performing it but I like all fields of mentalism equally.
I haven't performed billet work yet, but have studied it and plan to introduce some soon.

The Swami is an excellent tool and provokes an astonished reaction.