talkmagic.co.uk

Has any one seen the show T.H.E.M.(Totally Hidden Extreme Magic)? I was just wondering how old it was and what people thought of it. I wasn't too keen on it.


kemo

I've seen a few of them when there's nothing much else on TV.

Some if it I liked and some was just cariations on the same tricks that Monkey Magic, Max Magic and a host of other have done before.

I think that it's filmed in 2003 or 2004 and has just taken it's time to get over here.

Shows of this kind are prime examples of what magic ISN'T!

You can't do a DeKolta Chair vanish impromptu in the middle of some random night club, with a supposedly random person, nor can you walk through a solid pane of glass... you're witnessing impractical applications of yesteryear thinking presented under seriously controlled parameters by various wannabes trying to make a name for themselves doing tricks vs. magic.

Creative Editing, Camera Tricks, Controlled Perspectives, and an audience filled with stooges ISN'T MAGIC! Then again, nor is having 1,000 flies hatch out of your mouth... that's quite literally tasteless, probably violates some health ordnances in most communities and can potentially cause the idiot doing it physical harm/illness. It's a great special effect for a horror show, but a terrible concept for something that's supposed to be ENTERTAINING.

Sadly, a lot of Magic for TV seems to be angled in a similar way and, for some reason, can't be straightforward. With only a few notable exceptions, it always has to be freaky, dark, wacky, zany, extreme, in yer face, up yer nose and 1001 other daft adjectives before it gets the interest of the TV executives. For this reason we all need to support live magic when we get the chance - it might be the only way to see proper magic !

Craig Browning wrote:Creative Editing, Camera Tricks, Controlled Perspectives, and an audience filled with stooges ISN'T MAGIC!

Isn't it? I agree that if it's not entertaining to watch then it's not magic, just tricks, but I definitely would say that what Derren Brown performs is magical, even though he will use an off-camera centre tear or something similar. It will seem less magical to the spectators but his TV shows are evidently popular enough to prove that they are plenty entertaining for all those who watch.

This is getting into the definition of magic - I would say that as long as it is entertaining, camera trickery is perfectly permissible. Remember the old argument - all of what we do is tricks anyway (unless you believe in real magic ) so what does it matter having yet another trick?

Kati

Derren Brown is very different from T.H.E.M.
T.H.E.M is like a candid camera using magic instead of the usual gags. The problem is that the whole point of the show is 'we tricked you', whereas the Derren Brown show leaves you mystified.

As for real magic - while I'm not sure if I believe in real magic (I guess that depends on your definition), and I don't expect my audience to believe in real magic - I do want my audience to experience real magic. The last thing I want is for them to feel tricked..

The TV magazine blurb for one of these shows was along the lines of 'A team of young, talented and unknown magicians use their magical skills to play zany tricks on the unsuspecting public.'

The obvious (to me) question is 'why'? Why don’t they use their 'young, talented and unknown magical skills' to entertain us with magic instead of acting like silly kids? OK, I know that's a very personal and biased observation (I'm a very personal and biased individual!) but do you ever see TV programmes featuring young, talented and unknown opera singers suddenly leaping out in streets and shopping areas and doing a few arias at people? Do you get similarly skilled dancers winding up the unsuspecting general public with some zany, in yer face quicksteps and waltzes in Tesco's? Have you ever been featured on TV being astounded and amused by dark, gothic, wacky and totally anarchic cake decorating? No? So why use magic this way? OK, perhaps part of the answer is that Magic can be used that way, therefore it is, whereas the other suggestions are clearly ridiculous.
OK, I feel much better now, thank you !

Interesting discussion

When I think of magic apart from the classic magician image (Lance Burton etc) - I think of witches and wizards, or druids, symbols, myths and 'stuff' that is outside of modern living. So in that case playing a character that is gothic, dark or anarchistic does kind of fit with what magic is perceived to be. We don't have a problem with people acting out those characters in the theatre, or in movies for that matter.
I think that some of the stuff that is happening - like Chris Angel (even though I don't like his style) is a good thing and will help keep magic alive.
But yes - with T.H.E.M. I do think it's different in that it cheapens the art.

taneous wrote:Derren Brown is very different from T.H.E.M.
T.H.E.M is like a candid camera using magic instead of the usual gags. The problem is that the whole point of the show is 'we tricked you', whereas the Derren Brown show leaves you mystified.

As for real magic - while I'm not sure if I believe in real magic (I guess that depends on your definition), and I don't expect my audience to believe in real magic - I do want my audience to experience real magic. The last thing I want is for them to feel tricked..

That's a perfect observation and a sound philosophy!

The purpose behind what we do is NOT TRICKING PEOPLE but to create a magickle experience/memory/encounter.

If, as Helm's said, "We are but actors playing the part" then we are doing some very poor acting when our patrons know we are doing tricks and aren't ENTERTAINED by what we do and more so, when we are not presenting that which can be seen as "art" in purpose.

We can "justify" at least in our own mind, reasons for doing or not doing anything. If we are genuine patrons of a craft however, we will look at the greater picture rather than a selfish whim; though we will strive for novelty, we will likewise strive towards quality and the reflection of genuine integrity. This is not found in programs like T.H.E.M. or even 90% of the stuff we see David Blaine or even Criss Angel do on Tv (at least Criss does a live show that's killer... can't say that about Blaine)

Derren Brown, what little I've seen of his work (it's difficult to get hold of his shows here in the states), is an awesome ENTERTAINER. I may not fully agree with some of the liberties he takes off camera, but such antics have become "accepted" in today's culture. I think it's a bit dubious but I understand why many pros are doing things of this kind (so as to keep all the wannabes from stealing their acts).