talkmagic.co.uk

Ive been thinking of inventing my own illusion lately but i cant seem to put my finger on anything that sounds good. I always seem to come up with stuff that is basicly rubbish or somet that has already been done, so i have posted this on here to get some ideas from you. So heres my question.

If you could think of any trick or illusion that you would want to see what would it be??

now this can be anythin from a big illusion, a gimmick, anything. Any type of trick it can even be something thats already been done but needs improving ok thank you.

Ok... are you wanting to design a trick or an actual illusion, there's a big difference?

What kind of mechanical skills do you have? Are you good in the wood and metal shop?

Have you taken the time to study all the Paul Osborne, Stinemeyer, Poinc, Woodberry and other such books on the subject of illusion conception and development as well as their shop plans? For that matter, have you looked at the older Byron Wells Workshop Plan books (the "bible" that's still used by many a noted builder, btw.)?

How much time have you invested in working in and around live shows or talking with the pros that do this kind of work day in and day out? They have "needs" as well as specific standards that they look for in the effects they buy.

About a dozen years ago Ken Whitaker and I got together and started building an illusion known today as Shadow Vision it took us a little over four months of building mock-ups and breaking them up to re-build another before we got to a working prop then over the next two years, several other modifications (improvements & refinements) were done to it... all in all, the research for developing that effect cost us more than Sylvan (Italy's leading Illusionist) paid for it... a lot more! In fact, next to no real "profit" was seen on the effect until we sold the 3rd or 4th unit at over $10,000.00 a pop. Similar facts exist around most major illusions; they cost thousands of dollars to develope and require a significant amount of knowledge in the majority of instances.

I'm not trying to put a dampener on your vision, but you do need to look at the reality behind the proposition. The Andrew Mayne and Franz Harary types are rare in our world and even the big name designers like Stinemeyer, don't make their living from their creations.

If this is the route you want to go, then take classes in wood & metal working (especially cabinet carpentry) as well as classes in technical theater (building sets, props, etc. for the stage). You need to study optics, hydrullics, and general engineering and a few solid drafting classes along side illustrative art wouldn't hurt either.

Yes, it's a tall order, but if you want to compete in a side of the magic industry that is highly competitive and over saturated at present, you must do the things that will allow you and your creations to stand out from all the rest. That means you must master the art of deceptive design while building a top quality unit people won't only be proud to own, but willing to pay the extra big $$$s to own.

Think about it.

If you were talking about inventing a coin or magic trick, think of some sleights that you know, add them together and toss in some patter, you have a trick

(Okay, maybe not as simple as that, but you get the idea )

it's a good way to start man.
think of an effect you want to achieve then sort out the simplest way of doing it.
it's a lot better than someone who spends all day practising slieght of hand then throws 20 slieghts into doing one thrick which is much fun for the performer and somewhat confusing for the spectator
(o...k, now THAT was right out of Absolute Magic)

so yeh, work from the top down, big effect---> how to do it

personally i want to see you throw a pair of trainers into the air and catch some dinner shoes (in a colour changing ball type of way, but with shoes) no idea why i picked that,. possibly because i I'm currently juggling and trying to change the balls and wondering where my evening shoes are

Martin you want to go out there to do something like this then ...............go for it and i wish you all the best, dont let anyone make you feel 'is it worth it, is it not'

i was told by many that i will not be able to build the zig zag girl, it took me 2 weeks to build it and the end result was great, i have even used it twice and get good reactions from it. I still need to post a picture of it

If i was you i would buy some plans of some props from magic dealers (contact me if you need some suppliers) and build some that are already around, this will help you create that extra bit of knowledge when it comes to designing your own props

remember i have built a prop without metal and wood cutting and grinding experience, so can you

go for it


Jags

Yes indeedy - sound advice all around, especially in learning the skills to actually make the props (otherwise, get a partner who is skilled in this area and be the brains of the team!).

Get yourself copies of the books by Wels and Jack Hughes (and old magazines which discussion ideas and design/construction), look at their plans, ideas, etc. and learn from them.

I don't think inventing from an abstract 'good idea' is the place to start though. I used to live in a world of solder and breadboards where our best designs came from looking at something that we were using and working out how to do it better. This doesn't always mean different though.

Look at a branch of magic that gets you excited, learn the moves and the classic illusions and tricks from it and then think "How can I make this better, more startling, easier, shocking?" This is the first step to making a new trick, take an old one.

Almost every new trick I have seen has its roots firmly placed in an old one. Hope you succeed with your attempts, we need more inventors of magic out there, just remember inventors rarely invent something new, only better!

HTH,

Vic

jagsmagic wrote:Martin you want to go out there to do something like this then ...............go for it and i wish you all the best, dont let anyone make you feel 'is it worth it, is it not'

i was told by many that i will not be able to build the zig zag girl, it took me 2 weeks to build it and the end result was great, i have even used it twice and get good reactions from it. I still need to post a picture of it

If i was you i would buy some plans of some props from magic dealers (contact me if you need some suppliers) and build some that are already around, this will help you create that extra bit of knowledge when it comes to designing your own props

remember i have built a prop without metal and wood cutting and grinding experience, so can you

go for it


Jags

Why don't you post some photos of your Zig Zag so we can see what it looks like?

Anyone can follow the "stock" plans, that's not the same as designing magic and it's a far stretch to even call yourself an illusion building in doing such. True illuision technicians are educated at many levels and have other experts they call upon so as to improve the initial elements in the existing plans. This is why a Zig Zag built by Abbotts vs. Owen is so different.

all in good time, i will be putting my zig zag photos on very soon, just waiting for them

and also craig i agree with what your saying as well, just wanna give the kid a chance(sorry Martin im not saying your a kid, its just a saying)

The more positive support he gets the better it would be for im to progress further, like Vic said 'we need more magic creators'

I agree building is an art, If he was to get plans and build previous illusions he will get a headstart in understanding how things work, what things you have to bear in mind...

Its like my chair suspension, there are many ways then one to build it. but if he gets the main idea then after that he will start to build a mental picture on how to make other things, other new illusions or improving on existing illusions

all i say is well done to Martin for deciding to take this path, and all my best wishes for him, and good luck


Jags

oh......

and in ref to buying books and lierature for this skill of building is of course the way forward


Jags

Thanks for that some great advice there from everyone i really appreciate it. personally i have no experiance in wood work or anything like that but im not doing this alone i will be doing it with a mate of mine (Keith Bennet. KBmagic.com if anyone knows him) and hes been involved with magic for about 50 years and he owns a shop so i no he will know alot, but all i am looking for at the moment is a few ideas on what people want to see next, i will be recording every idea even the one with the dinner shoes hahaha (larry) so come on guys more ideas what would You like to see next???????????????

I'm not sure if this will work for stage illusions, but if I get stuck in a creative rut, I often just get out my magic storage box and pull out anything that has migrated to the bottom. This forces me to work on the stuff I dont necessarily like. I also have a tendency to rate all the stuff I view on DVD and note it in a log book. This means that I can go back to effects that I didnt like originally and start working on them. If I didnt like the presentation or handling I change it or if I didnt think the effect was strong enough I try and work on it till it is. This is just a way of kicking off the creative process, and you never really know where you'll end up.

If you are a creator, you MUST keep a log book and write down every idea, no matter how stupid. Six months down the line if your creative juices dry up, you can simply pull out your log book and you'll have a whole set of creative opportunities in front of you.

Jags, Zig Zag is by far my favourite stage illusion, so much so that I have purposefully stayed away from finding out how its achieved. Cant wait to see the pictures....

Creativity can not be 'invoked'... it is spontaneous to a degree.

If you have an idea, pursue it.

Most invention happens by chance or accident, and inventors who break the mould are simply the ones who decide to get off their proverbial and do something about it.

And sorry, Craig, but contrary to your remarks, inventor's don't ALWAYS have to be hands-on. Your ideas could be realised by a magic company, via a sponsorship/bought-rights deal.

Quite often, a creative idea is all that's needed. YOU get the ideas, SOMEONE ELSE makes them reality. It's pretty normal. (Inventor: I have an idea for a gadget, Engineer: I have a solution which may interest you)

Think yourself lucky that you feel creative. It's a gift, and it is what sets us apart. It's an expression of yourself, and should not be kept inside...

Good luck to all creative types here!

seige wrote:Creativity can not be 'invoked'... it is spontaneous to a degree.

If you have an idea, pursue it.

Most invention happens by chance or accident, and inventors who break the mould are simply the ones who decide to get off their proverbial and do something about it.

And sorry, Craig, but contrary to your remarks, inventor's don't ALWAYS have to be hands-on. Your ideas could be realised by a magic company, via a sponsorship/bought-rights deal.

Quite often, a creative idea is all that's needed. YOU get the ideas, SOMEONE ELSE makes them reality. It's pretty normal. (Inventor: I have an idea for a gadget, Engineer: I have a solution which may interest you)

Think yourself lucky that you feel creative. It's a gift, and it is what sets us apart. It's an expression of yourself, and should not be kept inside...

Good luck to all creative types here!

Seige well said,

I think this quote would work perfect here, something that i read here on TM(credits to that person. lol)

remember: professionals built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark


Jags

As to what you've stated, just remember that there is a big difference in owning a Stineway and having a piano...

If you want to build a levitation, you need to understand the physics involved to do so.

Yes, creative minds do job things out. But they do a heck of a lot of tinkering in their garages before doing so.

Yes, professionals did build the Titanic, it's a fact and we have proof of such. The Arc is a myth and no proof exists to prove otherwise.

professionals built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark

Just think how much worse Titanic would have been if built by amateurs !