Going pro

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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Going pro

Postby greedoniz » Jan 13th, '06, 12:44



Hello

I have been toying with the idea of going pro in the next year or so but have absolutely no idea of how to go about it. Obviously some sort of website, advertise etc.
Are there any pros out there who have any tips or advice for someone thinking about going pro? Apart from putting people off and killing the competition of course :wink:

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Postby taneous » Jan 13th, '06, 14:55

How often do you perform now? Do you have a number of paid gigs already? I think it's important that you at least have these in place before you consider doing it fulltime. Some people I know have dived in at the deep end and learnt as they went along - but it was a difficult process and they sometimes went for long period of time with little money coming in. Some other people I know have performed part time and then come to the conclusion that they were ready - as they had too much work to handle part time.

I guess I'm not the best person to be responding - as I'm not full time - but then again I am professional. However - from the feeling I get from your post - I'm not convinced you're ready. It seems like you're asking the wrong questions. It's a lot more than just a website or something.

There's a lot 'lying around' on the web that will help you with the decision - have a look at some of the articles at online-visions. There's also a really good book by a good friend of mine (Jacques le Sueur) called Hunter - it's essentially about how to set yourself up professionally - and a million other really useful pieces of advice. You can contact him at nomadicmagic@webmail.co.za

Hope that helps..

The secret to a succesful rain dance is all about timing
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Postby Craig Browning » Jan 13th, '06, 15:17

Have you taken classes in how to effectively operate a small business yet?

What about a marketing course?

For that matter, let's look at the more mundane side of show biz... acting & improvisational workshops, speech & public speaking, stage management?

It is highly recommended that you get some of this type of formal training under your belt first rather than learning about it the hard way (it's always better to gamble when you work with a deck stacked to your favor).

It's important to understand that going "Pro" means you are in fact, starting a business and that means you have to get things in order and approach it far different than you do when it's just a fun hobby that pays for itself here and there. The other thing to bear in mind is that the majority of noted names out there have a "Day Job"... less than 25% of those calling themselves "Pro" actually support themselves 100% from doing shows and of that group, less than 10% actually make an above average living or anything that comes close to hosting "celebrity" status.

I'm not saying this to dash your dreams, but sometimes the cold water of reality needs to splash us in the face when we are contemplating such things, regardless the field of interest. In short, there is very little that's honestly glamorous when it comes to the world of show biz. It's long hours and lots of hard work, so think about it. :wink:

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Postby greedoniz » Jan 13th, '06, 15:45

Thanks for the advice!!

I know I'm not at all ready yet to do this sort of thing fulltime but being the sort of guy who plans everything out well ahead I thought the earlier I get advice the better.
I suppose it is a good idea to tell you where I'm at and maybe the advice given could help anyone else thinking the same kind of thing.
I dont do any payed work at all as I have no idea where to start. What I do at the minute is mainly for friends but I am always asked to bring magic along with me and usually end up having strangers approaching and asking me to show them something.
I have also been known to wander around Leicester Square doing impromptu material for tourists as I think it helps my experience with complete strangers, especially ones who speak little to no english.

I suppose it is knowing how to take that next step to doing some sort of payed work even if it is part time. Friends have offered to pay me to turn up at their partys but I can't charge friends......or can I? hmmm more an ethical question concerning the nature of friendship really.

Anyway I digress

As far as the business side of it, I am already pretty well versed in the running of a business as I've done business studies and my Dad has run his own business.
Although say that I have no idea how muh a magician charges for an event. I know the charges change depending on the many factors but I'm not even sure of what the ball park figure is.

I know I'm way off being a pro but I suppose you have to start somewhere and this is it. Maybe I'll see one of you at a family wedding in a few years time??

Any advice would be very gratefully recieved even if it does rain on my parade.

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Postby magicdiscoman » Jan 13th, '06, 15:58

magicdiscoman
 

Postby greedoniz » Jan 13th, '06, 16:21

That link is excellent. Thank you!

The second one is restricted but nevermind.


As far as tooting your own horn goes I always say toot toot! :wink:

Looks like I've got alot to think about. The greedoniz Magic xmas special with special guest stars is a while away I guess!
To be honest I love just doing magic so much that I would be right happy doing it fulltime. Not so sure about kids parties though. Those little blighters would have me for breakfast! Tough crowd!

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Postby ace of kev » Jan 13th, '06, 17:57

I find that the magic I perform is to complicated for Kids, but that is always what people ask me :lol:

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Postby magicdiscoman » Jan 13th, '06, 18:27

could the mods make the second link to the archives avalable for all or repost it in a general section again for thoughs who are interested.
i did not see any secrets revealed on rereading it but one of the links dosn't work anymore. :?:

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Postby ace of kev » Jan 13th, '06, 18:40

Could you maybe not copy and paste some of the information if it does not contain secrets?

Only if that is ok with the Mods though

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Postby Mandrake » Jan 13th, '06, 18:58

OK, will see if we can get a copy of the second thread back here - there was nothing secretive about it but it contained a lot of useful tips and thoughts, albeit from well over 2 years ago!

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Postby ace of kev » Jan 13th, '06, 19:05

Cool thanks :D

This would be useful for the future :D

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Postby Mandrake » Jan 13th, '06, 19:06

OK, for a limited time only it's here in the Support and Tips section but, as the thread start date is in 2003, probably hard to find and the links featured may not stil be live! The topic link is http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic1989.p ... commercial

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Postby Craig Browning » Jan 13th, '06, 21:01

You may want to pick up some of the older marketing oriented books that are out there in the magic world. My suggestion would be to check with a reputable dealer like Stevens Magic. Just email Mark and tell him you would like to take a look at some of the less expensive business & marketing books they have to offer. I'm amiss as to titles right now, but I do know you don't want (or need) to invest in the big expensive programs that are out there.

Joel Bauer's HUSTLE HUSTLE is a classic and will open your eyes to a good deal of things.

Too, your marketing strategy will depend greatly upon the kind of act you are developing and the direction you wish to move. Know however, ads in a phone book simply do not work (they are bloody expensive and rarely pay for themselves). On the other hand a sharp, concise, easy to use and understand web site will give your results... it's the business card of the 21st century.

My site offers down loads of pdf materials that give more information to the potential client and though we are still working on it, we have PowerPoint presentations and will soon be adding some flash as well as audio & video files so the casual browser can learn all they need to learn and not have to deal with all the postage, printing and clutter that used to be such a common element in show biz.

EXPERIENCE is a biggy... though you are looking at things "down the road" you will be doing yourself a tremendous favor if you found a place you could do table magic at, even if it's just for tips. This kind of situation can (and will) open doors to private parties and even corporate deals. It also allows you to build on a local reputation, a stock pile of reference letters, quotes, video footage of you at work, and of course your Resume.

DO NOT WORK FOR FREE if people ask you to do a show. You can charge a nominal sum but always get something for your time and talent. This includes non-profit situations who are always encourging young performers to come in and get some "exposure"... well, that's nice but it don't pay the bills.

As to rates of charge, a beginner such as yourself, should keep things a bit fair at first and go with the regional averages. If you're doing kiddie parties as a warm-up act to the ice cream & cake, then set your rates in around $75.00 to $125.00 at first. Once your reputation builds and you are more prepared to move into things full time, you can raise the bar. Know however, you will never get the "real" money working your home town (nor the respect).

If I travel to do a show that is more than an hour's drive from where I live I know I will see no less than $1,500.00 for that date (it's a great incentive to do the trip). If I cross state lines the rate goes up considerably, especially if it's a corporate event. If you're willing to hustle you can easily do 3-5 shows at that kind of money, each day of the week, at least 4-5 days there of. As ironic as it sounds, that's nowhere close to the "big money" some performers see (you would be surprised as to how many magic performers generate millions of dollars a year that you barerly, if ever hear of.)

I hope these insights help you a bit :wink:

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Postby greedoniz » Jan 16th, '06, 10:18

Wow

I go a way for a few days and I get all this advice waiting fo me. Thanks very much for all the assistance so far I will take it all uder consideration and as advised I'm not going to rush into anything and scope it out a bit.

Strangely on this sort of subject I was with my girlfriend having dinner on friday night and as usual I was showing off one of my newest card tricks then went into Jay sankeys "In a Flash" which I had bought a few days ealrier. It caught the attention of the table next to us and I ended up doing a 10 minute routine for them.
It turned out that the people I had just performed for we in town doing a trade show, were looking into getting some sort of performer,were interested in hiring me and to cap it off they are a website development company willing to do me a website either for free or for a greatly reduced rate.
Life is just too weird sometimes.

Anyway I digress....thanks for the advice so far and keep it coming if there is anything anyone can add it is very much appreciated! :oops:

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Postby rcarlsen » Jan 16th, '06, 10:28

So did they hire you?

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