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I am trying to come up with patter for several tricks. I need ideas on how to figure out patter and what makes good and bad patter. Any ideas or comments would be greatly appericated.

Well, we can't tell you how to make up patter, as:

1. It all depends on the trick
2. Its different for everyone
3. Thats why

Think about what is happeneing in the trick, then try and explain it using a story or whatever. Sometimes you only need to tell them to "Watch"

I have to agree with Ace. You have to make the patter a part of yourself or at least your character. No one can tell you how to do that. However, look to life, history even pop culture for ideas on patter. See what happens in the effect and then draw comparisons.

I've been working on a Card Under Glass effect with a patter line that tells the story of one of Houdini's escapes that I read about. I think it's Eugene Burger who uses many aspects of philosophy and theology in his patter.

Hope this helps
Shawn

I remember trying to tell Goldilocks and the Three Bears while mentalising, the idea being that I was 'suggesting' numbers (ie 3) to them so that I could predict their card.

Never do this. Especially if you cannot actually remember the story.

I wonder if anyone else has made a similar fool of themselves?

A large number of magicians work for often hours and hours on the moves and handling of a trick.Many will spend as lot of time on the routine. But' not a lot' really think & work on the patter. I am glad YOU are!.
1. When you have learned the handling. Improvise the patter whilst you are actually devising & rehearsing the routine. Any ideas WRITE them in a notebook.
2. Actually try taping the patter you've improvised and lesten carefully to HOW it sounds. Can you use any of it; maybe the theme, any actual wording; any bits of biz or gags you've come up with.
3. Now write down the patter so you can actually see it in front of you.
4. Ask yourself.
a. Is it too long?
b. Too wordy?
c. Does it sound natural coming from ME?
5. Do another rewrite.
6. Check out any gag books you have and look for suitable gags. AGAIN write them down even though you may discard many of them.
7 Insert the gags into the patter.
8. CHECK for too many obvious statements , or conjuror's jargon.Statements which KEEP telling your audience WHAT you are doing. They do have eyes and ears!
Here is an empty box.
Here is an ordinary pack of cards
Here is a silk. What's a silk mister?
Now I take this card and insert it into the deck. JUST DO IT.
9. Now having written all this down, go through it, CUT it and SHAPE it.
If you are inwexperienced, MARK in any
emphasis or pauses.
10 Try it out aloud again. Record it again.( it often sounds false on tape. You'll recognise which is right and which is not with experience)
11. Get a trusted friend to listen, NOT a magician or you'll get his 'I'd do it this way' You are NOT him!. preferably someone who who has a standard of acting, you've seen. They have to think and use of pitch, pace, pause emphasis etc.
12. When you perform it in public. TAPE it. Don't bother about video.It's ears not eyes you need for patter. Go for sound. Listen then to the audience's reactions. Do it over several performances. You'll learn a lot.
NOW shorten it.
Allen Tipton

The advice about taping the sound, as opposed to videoing sound and vision, is excellent.

I used a small Dictaphone (we can take the usual joke as read, thank you!) to record the full routine of a Max Maven effect using nine methods of assassination and eliminating them one by one until one method is left which is successfully forecast with a bit of a twist to the revelation. All this can be set up days in advance and the tape just played so the impossible prediction element is stronger. Having taped it I realised that I was speaking far too fast, some of the blurb I assumed was essential was actually not needed at all and the voice pitch needed to be lower to make a worthwhile impact. The other thing I found was that some of this could be achieved by slightly slowing the tape speed on playback but that was just cheating! It's amazing how many pauses, 'ers' and 'ums' are used without realising it and, as long as you don’t get trapped into using the same script verbatim, listening critically to yourself on tape (in private!) will avoid serious embarrassment in public performance.

Am glad you liked the tape idea. With those mini recorders I've always thought it very possible for even Close Upperers to park in on the table and tape their performance. Video is fine BUT so many magicians look and see but DO NOT LISTEN. This is why in my magic lectures I tend to use mainly older tricks which they know and hopefuly then their main concentration is on what I say; ie usually the advice on Showmanship, Presentation, Stagecraft & Performance.
IMPORTANT. When you have a patter routine you are reasonably satisfied with or indeed satisfied with, MEMORISE IT THOROUGHLY. This way if there is any hitch you have a 'breathing/thinking space'.
Then the REAL TRICK is making it sound as though it is being uttered for the first time. Actors do this every night on every stage in the World.
It is so very necessary in Close Up work to know it inside out because the very intimacy of that genre will bring questions, comments etc. from your audience. Memorisation will give you confidence to cover this.
Scripting & memorisation eliminates the 'ums & ahs!
Finally. Keep the patter written down. Look at it every year or so. Does it still work? Is it up to date? etc.

Note for Mandrake. I haven't forgotten Ellisdons catalogue.
With productions, writing the new Abra series etc. I've been stuck. Will send it sometime this month.
Allen Tipton

Note for Mandrake. I haven't forgotten Ellisdons catalogue.

Nor me -I'm still trying to get that reprint!

I always type up a rough idea of the patter. that includes "secret" directions if you know what i mean etc!
I read though it now and again to refresh!

Then all the main jokes are included. I like the odd joke in a routine!