talkmagic.co.uk

Has anyone got any tips on doing a double charlier cut?

I don't seem to have enough thumb to hold the first packet and lift off a second.

Did anyone else find this, or do I have stubby thumbs?

First tip, start really high with the deck, on the highest part of your thumb and 4 other fingers. As high as you can get it with falling out of grip.

Secondly, make sure the deck isn't too concave as it prevents the top packet clearing the other packet and dropping down.

Thirdly, practice - sorry to sound like the bearer of obvious news but this is a slightly stretchy, slightly knackey move - which is quite a bit harder than a standard charlier. I know many people who are surprised to find it's as hard as it is even though they've mastered a charlier.

I can do multiple charlier's up to 7 packets on a good day - 5 without trying too hard.

If you can video what you're doing - myself and others can then comment on your technique.

Thanks MN, I'm not afraid of practise, you shouldn't be anywhere near magic if you are.

I'll post a clip for comment ASAP.

I completely agree pdjamez.

I really annoys me when I read a review and people write, " I only gave it 4 stars because it requires practice".

Okay you'll find a clip at http://www.magicforge.co.uk/media/charlierstruggle.mp4. Its in quicktime format, so you will need to have it installed to view.

I do a straight charlier 3 times so you get the hang of my handling and then I attempt the double. Not much happening, you'll agree. I am trying to catch the top packet but I'm nowhere close.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Try making the first packet smaller - maybe about a dozen cards.
THat way you have fewer cards to reach over with your thumb.

Might seem an insignificant difference but I've just tried it and it's definitely easier with a small packet than it is with half the deck, which is what you're using.

Proof positive that talkmagic members know their stuff.

Thanks saxmad and Mighty Nubbin for taking the time to offer your advice.

Heres my latest video after factoring in your advice: http://www.magicforge.co.uk/media/charlierprogress.mp4

My only question is this: I've found that once you have the top half of the deck bridged ontop of the lower packet and your ready to drop a second packet off, a squeezing action at the corner of both packets helps this part of the sequence. You will see this in the video. Is this everyone elses experience?

I don't know but sometimes the cards do matter. I used to use those cheapo lousy brandless cards and I am always unsuccessful. That's until I got Royal cards ( don't know if it's available in the UK) but generally it's alot smoother. When you first take it out of the packet it tends to stick together though, which makes it perfect to learn the charlier cut as your cards wouldn't scatter around.

Looks like you've almost cracked it!

Here's my tuppence worth, for what it matters:

1. Use new cards—they hold their packets better

2. As suggested, make the first drop a smaller packet, maybe as little as a 1/4 deck

3. My grip is: Hold the deck with the thumb, ring and middle fingers THE VERY TIPS of my ring and middle fingers being used, right near the top of the deck. Leave the pinky and forefinger at the short ends—the index finger's role will become apparent...

4. To aid breaking a small packet for the first cut, use the index finger on the corner of the deck nearest the thumb to cut. This leaves the thumb holding the main upper packet securely.

5. Once the packets separate, drop the lower packet, and using the index finger, angle it as you bring it up to, so the corner nearest your index finger is a little higher. Squeeze—as suggested—with the ring, middle and thumb. The thumb should easily be able to contact the main deck upper area because of the slight angle.

This works for me, but I stress... only with new cards. I can't seem to get any luck with this move with a well used deck... much like a faro or one-handed shuffle.

You're almost there!

You don't look too dissimlar to when I started out learning the double/running charliers and your hands are very slightly smaller than mine!

Couple of observations.

Still think your could start with the deck a bit higher up - the back 4 fingers look OK now but I think you could stretch out your thumb a bit before you do the first drop.

When I start the deck is NOT parralell to the ground, it's forming a little ramp with the top highest part resting on my thumb. This way you get more clearence before you start to cut.

Also, relax your hand a bit more, you're looking a little stiff overall.

Also when you push the packet up and back with the index finger give it a little extra force so the cut packet is resting as far back in your hand as you can - again for clearance for the next packet.

Cards wise, I'm the opposite of seige! I find brand new cards slip and slide too easily - for me a nice new but worn in deck is best. It has some oil and 'hand-dirt' for want of a better phrase on it - which causes the cards to stick slightly together in clumps - still whatever works for you!

There is so much you can do once you've got running charlier's down - there's a whole section on Xtreme Beginners on this. If you're getting into this stuff I highly recommend it.

Everyone is the opposite of me, for some reason. Perhaps I'm either unique, or simply weird.

I plump for weird. Being unique isn't enough

Thanks everyone, I can see I'm going to be busy tonight.