talkmagic.co.uk

I was thinking about this in a boring lesson at school today and I thought I would start a debate type thing.

It seems to me that some of the public and, in fact menatalists, think that mentalism is much more powerful and impressive than magic. I think that is because firstly, everyone seems to think that magic is a bit geeky. In my view that's because we have all seen uncles do card tricks where they deal and deal and dea and deal (you get the idea) and all that we are left with is a mediocre effect. Also, Derren Brown is very popular at the moment which certainly promotes mentalism.

I think that it is possible to get a reaction with magic that is as good as a reaction in mentalism the trick just has to be good.

I'm not saying one is better than the other I am saying they are equal. It does annoy me though when people, especially mentalists seem to think mentalism is loads better than magic.

Just my ramblings. What do you guys think?

Pitto wrote:Also, Derren Brown is very popular at the moment which certainly promotes mentalism.

I think it's important to remember that Derren Brown still gets the reaction, "How did yout do that?" just as everyone else does.

I think mentalism is sometimes more affecting on an audience because there are no props. Sleight of hand (see my Card Magic without sleight of hand thread) is known by everyone, and generally card tricks are dismissed fairly quickly because of it.
However, if you are able to tell someone a childhood memory that they are thinking of, it is so much more involving, personal and emotional for the person taking part. Plus there seems to be no trickery. As such, they will always remember the experience, rather than trying to work out what fingerwork you'd used.
Just what I think.

I think mentalism is sometimes more affecting on an audience because there are no props.

Eh? Not...

Tomo I wasn't suggesting he doesn't.

Yeah but that's another stereotype magic ie not mentalism doesn't have to be cards. And you can still involve the spectator on a personal level in magic especially if you change something which is theirs (or "smash their watch, I imagine that would get people very involved on a personal level ). I've also recently discovered that fewer people than I thought seem to have heard of sleight of hand.

I'm a mentalist... All I do is mentalism.. I cut my teeth with magic as most people do with card and coin tricks and I still enjoy this form of magic as well!!

I wouln't say that mentalism is more powerfull than magic but just another form of it. Any magic performed well can be powerfull. What it comes down to at the end of the day is a personal preference.

You seem to give the impression that mentalists think they are on a higher plain than everyone else. You're wrong (IMHO). I chose to do mentalism as it fascinated me more than just the usual cards, coins, top hat and tails etc. I still love watching the more tradiotional forms of magic though and I'm still astounded by a lot of the tricks that I see... Providing, once again, they are performed well!!

No I don't think that at all!

I think SOME mentalists do as I am sure SOME magicians think magic is better - I've just spoken to more mentalists who seem to like that (not on TM by the way )

rcarlsen wrote:

I think mentalism is sometimes more affecting on an audience because there are no props.

Eh? Not...

Ok, not all the time. But provided you don't use a great big book for someone to choose a word from there will be no way for them to look back and disregard the experience with the idea that 'trickery' was afoot!

This is just from my experience where I have performed card tricks and people have just puzzled over it, rather than be affected by it. Just because of their preconceptions of card magic I think, rather than card tricks themselves!

I am not sure if I agree with this stuff.
Any laymen understands that you can't read mind. But yes, he wonders how the hell you figure out stuff. It's the same with cards, they from time to time understand that what they see isn't true, but they have no clue how you do it.

Having said that, I don't think one should compare card magic with mentalism, it's something totally else...

rcarlsen wrote:I am not sure if I agree with this stuff.
Any laymen understands that you can't read mind. But yes, he wonders how the hell you figure out stuff. It's the same with cards, they from time to time understand that what they see isn't true, but they have no clue how you do it.

Having said that, I don't think one should compare card magic with mentalism, it's something totally else...

Yeh I agree. They are totally different skills which require totally different responses, and I don't intend to compare them. I just think with aspects of both you can come up with some stronger stuff.
I'll never stop working within the constraints of cards I don't think, I enjoy them and their elegance too much. I was merely stating that effects which do not seem to require sleight of hand are so much more powerful.
Which, in hindsight, is a fairly obvious point. I think I got caught up in the heat of the moment!

By the way, I haven't introduced myself to you! I'm Mark and I must say I really enjoy your card material - your natural and relaxed card handling is something I'll aspire too!

Anyway, hope I didn't come across as awkward, was merely stating an opinon on performance! Mark