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just thought i would chip in with my little view

i love the pass i find it so versitile. if i require a card to be lost i will normaly use the pass and i can sy look hers you card in the center and a second later have it exactly where i want it. 99.9% if you ask the spectator where there card is when u have just put it in the middle and have apparently done nothing they should say in the middle.

but and theres a but.

i sat and watched a profestional magician doing a few card tricks i was sat almost stright infront of him and as you do i was watching every moe he made with his hands. he then did a nice card routine and i think i counted 4 passes in one routine which to me semmed way to many to a layman proberly would not have noticed. i then went home tryed his effect altered it and did what appeard to be the same effect without a single pass.


its and amzing tool used at the right time but used to exsess is not nessery.
mrfye

if your looking for help on the pass, it would probably be a good idea if you could show us where your struggling, like in a video or something

Just thought... I would reccomend learning a Herrmann Pass first they'r much eaier IMHO for example...

Sky321 wrote (about KatrielAlex):

you said you can see points pass just about well lets see you do better then, maybe you’re just being picky?

I've gotta say that I agree with Kati, and he's not just being picky. You may not see any cards move in Point's technique, but you can see an extreme tension appear in his hands at the very moment the cards do move. Whilst the technique and speed is flawless, the act of making it a fluid motion and fitting in with the rest of the actions is what is missing. I'm sure Point's pass flys effortlessly by laypeople when performing in the real world but anyone burning his hands will notice this tension.

I used a pass in my Joker's Wild video and whilst my pass is not brilliant and very inconsistent, even after pointing out that I used a pass in this trick, many of the magicians here could not spot it. Even I can't see the pass take place and I know EXACTLY where it is. I'm not trying to be big-headed about this, and I never realised my pass was this effective until I had comments on this video, but this is an example of a pass that will fly by magicians because of how it flowed with the routine. My only real resource for learning the pass was Ninja 1 (which I would recommend even though I've never seen "On The Pass").

Sorry if you feel this is a personal attack on your pass Point, I'm sure when used in a routine your pass would be even more indetectable than the one I used.

Pitto wrote:

Just thought... I would reccomend learning a Herrmann Pass first they'r much eaier IMHO for example...

Hermann passes are nice and all but if you have a choice between being able to do a well covered classic pass and a Hermann pass there are very few situations where the Hermann Pass will win. There is always some kind of extra effort involved in covering the Hermann pass, like rotating the deck, turning to one side, etc. It's not as versatile as the classic pass in my opinion.

P.S. If any of you do decide to try and spot my pass it's directly after returning the first card to the deck.

magic_evmeister wrote:I used a pass in my Joker's Wild video.

THAT is a good pass!

That pass is "living proof" in my opinion that the pass is noty an unnecessary move. How magical was that?!

Full marks on that pass.

Yes the Hermann takes more cover but if you want to use the pass and you can't yet do a classic pass I'd learn one it can be a fairly natural action.

Also I use the HP sometimes if I say "and I push the cards through my hand (or if your Paul Harris 'The organic tunnel of mystery')

I use a Hermann pass (turnover pass) in a routine which I've been working on for a while called "Graffiti Artist" (a routine I'm really excited about and can't wait to get it down for a video). It has a signed card returned to the pack face up and then the pack is turned face down naturally as part of the next stage of the routine. Therefore this Turnover Pass is the most appropriate "Tool" (I like this description of the pass) for the task at hand.

I've actually been playing with covering the Hermann pass by merely gesturing towards the spectator as you do it. Move the bottom packet across and then use the gesturing forward as cover to move it round to the top of the deck. No twisting of the hands, deck or anything, just a forward movement of the hands which should fit in with your patter (e.g. gesture forward whilst saying "so you've selected a card..." and pull back as you say "and we've replaced it in the deck"). I've found this to be VERY easy as an application of the pass, and almost as clean and effective as the more difficult classic pass. If anyone wants more info on this or a video then let me know, because I feel it is the perfect pass for beginners to use.

Great idea!

I didn't think the turnover pass was the same thing, I thought it was a slight variation that's Herrmann based - like a tilt pass.

Cheers. In my opinion, Vernon's principle of "Larger action covers the small" can be applied to almost any move. I've found it can be applied with great results with this technique.

Pitto wrote:

I didn't think the turnover pass was the same thing, I thought it was a slight variation that's Herrmann based - like a tilt pass.

It probably isn't the same but I always just thought the Hermann pass was moving the bottom to the top, however you do it, and classic pass was moving top to the bottom.

Anyone who can clarify this for us?

No your right, thats the destinction, so a dibble pass could just be called a classic pass the rest is the cover.