talkmagic.co.uk

I see your point, Demitri. However, I still think that having a deck that's designed to call attention to itself as a gimmick is a bit pointless. I have had people ask to see the deck, not to examine it for a gimmick but just to see the funny deck. If I had to say, "No, sorry, but you can examine this one " I'd just give up on any trick I had to do.

Kati

Hmmm... I am actually a great perpetuator of the 'attention grabbing no-no' deck theory.

Although I love the Tigers-et-al to bits, I think that generally if I stray away from standard blue or red decks at all then I am often asked about the cards themselves.

One of the inherent marvels of card magic is that cards are an everyday item... they are available to the general public.
Because of this, a 'familiar' looking deck like regular blue or red bikes is accepted as 'normal'.

Conversely, whip out a deck of Tigers (or Kens/Barbies) and immediately you are introducing an alien looking deck.

Unless you can justify this, either with a good routine or storyline, you are begging for awkward questions.

The first time I remember getting grilled about Tigers was when I got them out at a barbecue last year. They were immediately referred to as 'magic cards', as opposed to playing cards. I then got asked 'where do you get them from?'. Hard to lie and say 'WHSmith'.

As for the Ken/Barbie pastel cards—I will be adding them to my anorak-style collection, but I am afraid that they may not see the light of day.

I agree that they draw attention to themselves - but as far as Seige goes, mentioning that unless you have a way of justifying why you have a specific deck...I can't agree with that.

Mostly because while a regular pack of Bikes is something everyone has seen, it's certainly not something everyone carries with them at all times. So, you could say that you'd even have to justify blue Bikes. I've had a few people say "You just carry cards with you all the time?" I tend to reply with "Well, I have a gambling problem, ma'am. But I'm getting better - I'm down to two packs a day." At some point we are called to justify nearly every single prop, card, coin, silk, etc. that we use. It's par for the course. Tossing in a strange looking deck of cards shouldn't be that great an ordeal. It's just one more thing you need to lie about

I hate Black Tigers - truly I do. But I hate them because of the shoddy craftsmanship that went into them. They improved with the Vipers, but in the process they made them smell funky and feel greasy. I have a pretty big list covering all the reasons I dislike these decks - but I just can't justify putting "they look like a gimmick" on the list. And I find it hard to accept some of you do, when I've seen you praise things like the ID, Mirage Deck, Brainwave and other utilities.

I understand your views, and I respect your opinions immensely. However, I still have more questions.

Siege, you mentioned how the cards were being questioned - and Kati, you implied a similar situation. My questions are - how long did this interrogation go on, and did it ruin their appreciation of the effects you performed? I may be going out on a limb, but I would imagine the skepticism of most of your audience died down shortly after the deck was revealed.

I am interested in hearing "field test" results of using these out in the world. I myself have only used them a few times (since the darn things look like they have frayed edges after a short time). My overall reactions were positive. Sure, I had some "trick deck" "funny looking cards" comments - but I uphold they'd have said similar things to a blue-backed pack of Bikes.

Demitri wrote:Siege, you mentioned how the cards were being questioned - and Kati, you implied a similar situation. My questions are - how long did this interrogation go on, and did it ruin their appreciation of the effects you performed? I may be going out on a limb, but I would imagine the skepticism of most of your audience died down shortly after the deck was revealed.

I am interested in hearing "field test" results of using these out in the world. I myself have only used them a few times (since the darn things look like they have frayed edges after a short time). My overall reactions were positive. Sure, I had some "trick deck" "funny looking cards" comments - but I uphold they'd have said similar things to a blue-backed pack of Bikes.

The deck got such an awful reception from friends (who know me as a cardician anyway) and strangers that it scared me away from them. In fact, the more I used them in regular routines, the more I realised that I was uncomfortable with them. So much so, I actually stopped using them.

The reaction was SO BAD that it inspired me to write a book of routines for the deck. A set of routines which actually are inspired by the appearance.

In field tests, once I gave the decks a 'raison d'etre' as opposed to simply using them as a novelty, they took on a whole new persona.

I will stand by my real world observation that people are almost immediately suspicious of the black cards... especially strangers. Granted, if I was dressed like Chris Angel (spelling?) and was all gothic in my act, I guess they'd be accepted.
But for my more purist approach to card magic, I find that standard red and blue backed cards with the familiar 'regular' faces are far more acceptible—mainly because we've all grown up knowing they are the norm.

People just accept them as a deck of cards, their mind goes no further. It's a familiar item.

I can see your reasoning, Demitri—although I would imagine that many people use the black decks highly infrequently—especially professionals.

Blue and red backed cards are definately considered the norm. Plain, pure, simple and unquestioned. Whether gimmicked or ungimmicked, they are most innocent of all.

Demitri wrote:And I find it hard to accept some of you do, when I've seen you praise things like the ID, Mirage Deck, Brainwave and other utilities.

Aha! The thing is, the ID looks exactly like a normal deck. It can be shown and spread through, and looks, as Sankey would say, "copacetic". However, Black Tigers and Vipers don't look normal and therefore draw attention to themselves. It's sort of like taking a pack of cards out of a box with "Special Magic Trick Cards" and doing a trick with them, or using a gaff half-dollar (less so) - they're out of place and so speccies want to examine them.

I see your point, though, and nobody's ever accused the Viper deck of being a gaff one, so I do see that you are practically, if not theoretically, correct.

Demitri wrote:Siege, you mentioned how the cards were being questioned - and Kati, you implied a similar situation. My questions are - how long did this interrogation go on, and did it ruin their appreciation of the effects you performed? I may be going out on a limb, but I would imagine the skepticism of most of your audience died down shortly after the deck was revealed.

Nobody has suspected them of being gaff cards, just wanted to have a look at them because they look 'cool' or 'interesting'. However, I definitely don't want to let them have a look at a gaff pack, say invisideck, as they will immediately notice the gimmick even if they're not looking for one. So, no skepticism but it would be a bit hard to evade a casual look.

Demitri wrote:I am interested in hearing "field test" results of using these out in the world. I myself have only used them a few times (since the darn things look like they have frayed edges after a short time). My overall reactions were positive. Sure, I had some "trick deck" "funny looking cards" comments - but I uphold they'd have said similar things to a blue-backed pack of Bikes.

My essential argument is that the Viper decks don't invite suspicion of a gimmick, but they do invite a casual look at the cards. And unfortunately, most gimmicks will be revealed by a casual look. IMHO, I would be very uncomfortable using a gaff black deck.

Nobody has ever asked me to show them my Bike decks, or (I think) accused them of being 'funny'.

Kati

I don't have time to read the whole topic, so this may be posted.

I got both types, and they're not that good. They feel cheap and thing. The blues are also not that "hot". I'd get them for manipulations, not actual tricks.

I'm just wondering which colour(s) will be next - a nice restful Lemon, a zesty Orange, a multicoloured Rainbow effect?

The answer is Lime Green - check out www.cards4magic.co.uk but give them a minute or two to update the website!
(Yes, I've ordered mine, should be here Monday!)

i Use my pink deck with tricks with the ladies, going down well at the moment. If you really love collecting cards then check out these

https://sslrelay.com/www.aquarius-magic.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=1542dd1fbbc597e/shopdata/index.shopscript

The invisible ones are quite fun

Edit:sorry guys. Forgot to mention, when you get to the link, click on accessories then click on cards

Has anyone heard about this Bicycle Elephant Deck?

From what I've seen - it looks like the box to a black tiger deck (with an elephant silhouette on it)

The backs look like a tiger deck, as well. The odd part, is that the faces are a weird green, with black and red pips while the court cards are white outline. The AoS also has an elephant image on it.

Here's a link from ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/4DECK-RARE-Elephant-Deck-Bicycle-Playing-Cards-New_W0QQitemZ6198585705QQcategoryZ1438QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also, Magicbox.uk.com WAS selling clear bicycle cards, but they're not on the site anymore. Has anyone heard of or seen these?

Is it just me, or does it seem like they're going a bit too far with these special decks?

They are going very far

Hey! This is my first post on this board, and as the recent owner of a brand new deck of Black Tiger cards, i felt that this might be a good place to start!

I like my Tigers very much but, as you have all mentioned, they can be quite attention grabbing! If it is a normal tiger deck then handing them over for inspection is fine because they wont find anything anyway! But if i ever use an invisible or svengali deck of tigers, which i probably wont do anyway, I would tend to use that as my last trick and walk away as soon as it is done.

Another way i have used them is with a normal black bike deck. I have come up with a trick where the selected card (from the black deck) suddenly reverses its colours into the same value in the tigers! It always makes people gasp and appears very impressive!

I have seen the new pastel coloured cards, or ken/barbie cards as you have called them. I think i may just buy a pack to add to my collection! I would probably very rarely use them! The new 'Tactical' decks look quite impressive also! Theyre either black or green and have been made for special forces and are quite hard wearing. Does anybody have any of these?

Rich

Time for all addicts of unusual decks like me to get those credit cards working again - have a peep at http://www.cards4magic.co.uk/acatalog/N ... ST_IN.html

A bit of Googling show that these are designed by Magic Makers and made by USPG. As Ellusionist seem to have started the trend of Black/Ghost Decks etc, I wonder if this is a case of MM ripping off E?!

Anyways, there are demo vids to watch:
http://magicmakersinc.com/THEBLACKDECK.wmv
http://magicmakersinc.com/THEBLACKDECK.mov

Added later on:

Someone else says it's a rip off and E have beeen 'Stiffed'! Check out http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/magic ... _agai.html

Checking www.cards4magic.co.uk I see they now have the Red Decks with 'extra cards' in stock:

The RED Deck - This Red Hot faced poker deck soars across your spectator's eyes with full colour court cards sporting black and white pips! Beyond the 52 standard cards, this deck holds 4 bonus magic cards sure to take your card work to the highest levels of illusion. Price: £4.95

Click on New Lines just in and scroll down a bit - fifth item, can't miss 'em!

Update: Red Decks arrived today and they're as good as expected. The backs are standard red bike backs which means there are opportunities here to switch odd cards into and out of standard white faced red bikes. The card box looks just like a standard red bike box apart from the helpful printing of THE RED DECK on one long side opposite the usual Air Cushioned Finish wording. As with the Stealth Decks, the card box has details of a card printed on the small flaps so a reveal after a force is a possibility. The three gaffed cards supplied match with the black backed bikes as well as the Red Deck and regular red bikes. I'm just wondering how soon it will be before the Blue Deck is available with gaffs and backs etc to go with regular blue bikes!

there is actually a difference with the "red deck" back and an ordinary red deck... an ordinary back has a white pinstripe running round the inside edge of the design..the red deck doesnt