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Hi everybody!

I'm a novice from Switzerland and my interest is especially in mentalism. Can you tell me how I can learn the following kind of mentalism and how it is called?

- the performer asks a unknown person e.g. in the city to imagine a name of his/her first girlfriend/boyfriend. The performer asks the person to imagine clearly the letters and mix them in the mind. Then the performer starts devining letter by letter: "the first letter is a "B", isn't it?" - "Yes!" - (and so on) - "The name is XXX and she had blonde hair, correct?" - "Yes!"

- the performer divines a phonenumber of a person just by looking into the persons face and counting from 0 to 9 for each digit. At the end, the performer adds the last 2 numbers without divining explicitely - dials the whole number with his cell-phone and the cell-phone of the foreign person in the middle of downtown starts ringing...

- no writing needed - just a dialogue between performer and "victim"

You could help me by either telling me how this kind of mentalism is called (please not as unspecific as "mindreading" ...) or if you could tell me some sources (especially books...) for learning it.

So far I have Corinda's book, but the "reading"-techniques are very short and not up to e.g. pupils reactions etc. that I suppose to be one factor for the mentionned kind of mentalism.

(further I have Skullduggery that is great, but neither the right direction, Osterlind, Cassidy, Shivers)

I guess Wayne Houchin is able to perform what I'm looking for (e.g. in combination with Stigmata) but will he treat it broadly anywhere?

Thanks for your help!

Your new member - Cici

Cold reading and muscle reading play some part in what you've said.

It sounds like you're confusing the term 'mind reading'... there's no such thing in physical reality. The methods for making informed guesses in these situations can be very hit and miss, and TV shows will rarely admit that there were outtakes.

A lot of what you need is in Corinda's 13 steps, Banachecks Physchological Subtleties and more.

Most of this stuff is pure performance, whilsts stealthily hiding the actual methods.

seige wrote:1) Cold reading and muscle reading play some part in what you've said.

2) It sounds like you're confusing the term 'mind reading'... there's no such thing in physical reality. The methods for making informed guesses in these situations can be very hit and miss, and TV shows will rarely admit that there were outtakes.

3) A lot of what you need is in Corinda's 13 steps, Banachecks Physchological Subtleties and more.

Hello Seige!

1) when I look up "cold reading" in the internet, most find informations about "clairevoyance" - palmreading etc. where you actually drive a spectator towards the answer you want to hear.... but that has nothing to do with beeing able to divine someone's phone number to call him impromptu.

2) And "mind reading" is a term that is used too largely, so it's perhaps the process itself, but of course executed by physical and psychological skills (and THAT's what I'm looking for). Even the term NLP is too large as they use it e.g. also for personal management or once again for misleading people...

With the TV-shows you're surely right - but for me it would be enough just to have half the skills that the performerS (!) I have seen had: they divined names with 4-10 letters or as I said the complete phone number and even if I'd miss in 80% of all cases - as long as it is no "luck" anymore, but a skill that can be improved, I'm willing to learn it.

3) for me, both don't go far enough: muscle reading is great and I like it and it works, BUT I just MUST learn to divine numbers (like lying detector: pulse or iris or voice etc.) and names (just by looking into the face of someone, as some performers do).

Perhaps the informations I need will rather be found in scientific sources as NLP, psychology or linguistics (I study the last one for 5 years now at university.... but never learned too deep skills about body language...).

Thanks for helping so far!

Yours - Cici

As I previously hinted at, you will find most of the actual methods for reading people's minds aren't in fact anything to do with the way you're thinking.

It's all an illusion... it is physically impossible to pluck the kind of details you want out of thin air!

My guess is you've been watching Derren Brown. One thing to note with him is that the way he presents a trick (i.e. the method he claims) is almost NEVER the method he is using. I guess that's the same as what Seige is saying.

You will get some of what you seek (numbers etc.) on Banachek's PSI series volume 3 DVD.

seige wrote:for reading people's minds aren't in fact anything to do with the way you're thinking.

Well, that's a question of interpretation...... I don't want to quote Corinda word by word here, but think of the muscle reading e.g. . I do it and it works and it's 100% scientifically explainable. And I think of hypnosis that works great against pain or sometimes to stop smoking or against phobiae etc. so there is a lot of science in this matter. I just want to get the maximum of it and of course it will have to be combined with sometimes gimmicks (sw** etc. - and I'm not a fan of too much gimmicks...) and sometimes it just works fine all alone as psychological influence or understanding of body language (e.g. Luke Jermay's work). And I know the side of influence well enough and want to improve the side of reading as muscle reading, lip-reading and I don0t want to mention officially all the other topics but I hope you understand now the point: as far as reading is possible I want to learn it and the missing part for me is in reading the nonverbal-language as psychologs do also as "human lying-detectors". We learn some techniques at University (linguistics) but they are far too superficial. And the psychologic ones - I either don't know them or the ones I know are for terapeutical purpose and not for understanding the "unspoken". In linguistics (e.g. communication) you learn how people can lie with words whilst their body tells (almost) always the truth... That's how lie detectors work: most of them measure the pulse, body temperature and humidity of the skin. Human can do this too, but are in some senses not as strong as machines (e.g. humidity) but in some senses better than technique. The result is NEVER guaranteed and that's why a court would / should never make decisions because of the results of a lie detector, but the results tell remarkably often the truth: I have seen myself a dozen of lying people that admitted AFTER the results, that the machine was right and that they were liying. And if you ever saw the pencil of a lie detector while you try to divine a number between 0 and 10, then the answer is 99,99% clear and sharp - it's an incredible peak as the person tries to hide that you / the machine found the number the person was thinking of - even if the person does not want to play the game.... that one won't work with muscle reading! But muscle reading is ALSO a kind of reading nonverbal signals...

Shortly: I'm looking for some good lecture to improve my skills for reading nonverbal signals of the human body.

Thanks for helping!

Yours - Cici

ian69 wrote:You will get some of what you seek (numbers etc.) on Banachek's PSI series volume 3 DVD.

I don't owe that one yet and will have a look..... thank you ian!

Yours - Cici

Cici

You're looking at a very big field within mentalim that requires years of study & practice. It's not just one thing, it is a combination of techniques, one of which I'm surprised that siege didn't mention in that it's far more close to what you describe over Muscle Reading, I refer to the use of Anagrams.

Now something you have in fact mixed up is the difference between "Mind Reading" and "Thought Reading"... the latter of which is what we do when using Muscle Reading and other such techniques. Mind Reading is very much a myth; a poorly chosen set of words to which much misinterpretation has been applied.

My suggestion to you, is not to worry about "all the other stuff" until you've completed learning the basics found in Corinda & Annemann. If however, the art of Reading people is a direction that peeks your interests there are several books I'll recommend over the current tomes of popularity, most of which were written with a skeptic's bias which can hurt you when it comes to learning what being a Reader really is all about vs. what certain folks want you to believe.

Given your level of study and the subject at hand, I can only recommend you study all you can on billet work, the use of psychological controls via languarge and body action, and as I said, Anagram methods like Ray Grissmer's "What's Your Sign?" and it's many variations.

When it comes to billet work I cannot stress to you how valuable this area of study is. Get everything you can of Bob Cassidy's that deals with billet work and practice, practice, practice! Many successful careers have been made using little other than this simple tool.

Best of luck!

Craig Browning wrote:
1) You're looking at a very big field within mentalim that requires years of study & practice.

2) It's not just one thing, it is a combination of techniques

3) Now something you have in fact mixed up is the difference between "Mind Reading" and "Thought Reading"... the latter of which is what we do when using Muscle Reading and other such techniques. Mind Reading is very much a myth; a poorly chosen set of words to which much misinterpretation has been applied.

4) until you've completed learning the basics found in Corinda & Annemann. I can only recommend you study all you can on billet work,
When it comes to billet work I cannot stress to you how valuable this area of study is. Get everything you can of Bob Cassidy's that deals with billet work and practice, practice, practice! Many successful careers have been made using little other than this simple tool.

Hi Craig -
Thanks for your answer!

1) no problem - I'm at university for 9 and a half year now: studiying is my life! (7 branches, 9 languages, etc.) - I'm willing to work hard for it!

2) exactly what I'm saying! - And I say: forget about the gimmicks - frankly I don't like the billet work etc. - forget about the leading (like hypnosis), I have more than enough sources for that one - it's the READING-TECHNIQUES that I'm missing! - the rest is either no problem or not wanted...

3) that might be - first of all due that I'm not english native and second: I'm new to magic.... In Switzerland the word-by-word translation of mind-reading or thought-reading would be about the same and it's just what everybody easily can do up to a certain degree (I'll show later in this post) but it seems that I didn't get the right term for what I wanted to say in English.... - thanks for correction!

4) in the same time I'm working on ....-reading BECAUSE I'll show now, that everybody of us (if not authistic) can manage to do this up to a certain degree:

what I'm looking for is this:

- a baby cries - this means WITHOUT ANY DOUBT the baby is uncomfortable. Why do you know this? - Because you READ the babies non-verbal language - so you understand another human's feelings without the need of hearing any word!

- your wife / girlfriend comes home and you KNOW she's angry about something..... Why do you know that? She didn't say a word?! - Because you READ hear face! - (and you know her.....)

perhaps she's angry because:

- a girl at the bar smiled at you..... You know she's not disgusted by you.... Why?

- Your son lies at you. You know it. Why?

- Your wife / girlfriend jumps up and down making sounds like a monkey as you hand her out the tickets for a concert that is sold out for weeks. - You know she's very, very, very happy about it and she's not liying with her bodylanguage. Why do you know this?

BECAUSE YOU CAN READ IT!

The better you know someone, the easier it is of course, but MANY signs just work with most people: the voice may change when liying (e.g. divining a number between 0 and 10 : the performer asks the person to say "NO" after each number you ask whether it is it or not). Might work..... but as you'd say, Craig: "it's NOT only the voice... that one could possibly fail....". EXACTLY! - It's the "alltogether" - and this includes even the words that are spoken: "Did you steal money from my wallet, sister?" - "No." - It's the combination of body and speech. If there is a "disharmony" or however you want to call it, then something is.... wrong... - either she is lying, or something is just not in order with her or with your reading -> maximum of "tests" will give you maximum of evidence: "Come on! - Why are you lying?! Your lips are trembling and your face is all redish!"

You see? - It is possible and it happens every day, yet every dialogue!

I just want to improve it! - No billets, no sw***, JUST EYELIDS, LIPS, SKIN TONE, VOICE, FACE MUSCLES (especially around the eye), PUPILS, EYEBALL MOVEMENTS, GESTS, SPLEENS etc.

I'm still seeking for more input ("no 5 need input!") as I know them only from superficial (but well founded!) theories in linguistics and psychology.

Thanks for you patience folks! now READ THIS:

As I've said, this is a very deep and vast field. I've been working as a Reader for over three-decades and I'm still learning new techniques such as my current area of study known as FACS (Fascial Action Coding System) created for law enforcement interrogation fields and clinical therapists by Paul Ekman, Wallace V. Friesen, and Dr. Joseph C. Hagar. This in itself is a two to three year area of study and practice.

Based on what you've shared I will recommend you tracking down everything by Fred Crouter a retired psychologist that has become a noted Reader & Mentalist in the Casinos near his home. Another "obscure" source is the book YOU CAN HEAL YOUR LIFE by New Age author Louise L. Hay... I've shared this tome with many who've discovered it a significant resource when it comes to making some rather "impossible" hits on clients.

Another resource you may wish to invest some time with is Millard Longman's PSYCHIC SKILLS WORKSHOP tape & book (http://www.mevproshop.com/psychic-skills-workshop.html as well as Kenton Knepper's book MIND READING, the two lend serious compliment to one another and will give you that edge not found in most tomes dealing with this subject.

Bob Cassidy's dissertation on Cold Reading is, in my opinion, one of the most important reads for anyone seeking to learn the truth about this skill and working with it. You can find it here http://www.mastermindreader.com/

You will also find other reference materials on this topic via this link http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutreading.html

One of the most important things you can do for yourself when it comes to learning how to be a valid Reader, is to actually study and master at least two esoteric systems like Numerology and Palmistry. Set aside all the magic-based brain washing data, the Forer principle, etc. and simply learn how to use a legit system. This will teach you more in just a year's time of actual practice than any of the garbage being promoted by the status quo.

As I've shared in the past, a review of Ron Martin's NOTEBOOK series is also a very valid direction to take if you honestly want to understand the art of being a Reader and what they really do vs. what some assume we do (bear in mind, most of the more readily endorsed tomes were written by admitted skeptics & cynics and not by people that actually do this kind of work day in and day out... e.g it's best to learn how to be a plumber by going to a master plumber vs. asking the local Carpentry master how to do it...)

Finally we come to the many contributions give us by Richard Webster which I can assure you, are very sound in both theory & practice.

When it comes to the more heavily promoted materials that are out there like TRADECRAFT, the Rowland book and Brad Henderson's THE DANCE it is my opinion (and that of most full-time workers) that these are secondary sources of study -- material that will help you in rounding out what you've learned via the older, more proven techniques outlined in the above. Same goes with the Herb Dewey books, which are a bit more accurate than many would like to give them credit for but a bit dated at the same time.

Not to blow my own horn too loudly, but my EASY READING book can help you in some of this "first year" study action though, even from my point of view, it's more akin to second and third year material. You will find it at Loren Tindall's site along with Millard's notes and other such materials.

Hope this helps you out and feel free to PM me should you have any questions to this regard.

Wow Craig. Very interested to hear that you are currently studying Ekman's FACS. It never occured to me that this could be used by a reader to work alongside cold reading. How much success have you had with it, or are you still training?

For those of you not familiar with FACS I warn you not to go searching for it as the next item in a mentalism toolkit. It is an extremely complicated system of measuring facial movements and, as Craig said, it takes years to learn.

I agree with what you say about the books such as Tradecraft. I personally think that this is a fantastic publication and very good value for money. However, people should think that simply by reading books like this that they will become an expert cold reader. To get to that stage takes the decades of research and practice that people such as Craig have put in.

Giz.

Dr. Hager just sent it to me about a month ago so I've really not done much more than a general look through the material... I'm still recovering from the headache of doing such. It's phenomenal material and worth every penny they are asking for on it.

I am covering just a little bit about FACS in my up-coming book THE NAKED APE (first in the long awaited for "Reader's Bible" project I've been working on for the past decade or so). In fact, much of what I've suggested in the above list, ties in well to what is outlined in THE NAKED APE.

When it comes to being an effective Reader I would suggest that people look at it the same way they would Extreme Card Manipulation... it takes daily and near consistent practice in order for it to become second nature to us and the act of memorizing some silly formula or group of niche readings (profiles) will only get you into trouble out in the real world.

@ Seige:
thank you for putting things in a more correct light: I didn't explain well what I wanted and the performance I mentioned about divining a phone number might be of course an illusion, as I don't know how it works (what means I can't tell for sure that it isn't an illusion....). But for divining a number, I know that psychologs can do it without caring for "street-magic" and mentalism. I saw once a "performance" which subject was how trustful lie detectors are:

-> It was in a science show and no show-effect was wanted: it was pure science about how much our body communicates inconciously and the psycholog that did it used also a recorder for data to analyse the results to show that it's scientific explainable how it works: he could show the physically recorded waves of the voice and skin humidity and every child could see a huge peak at the place, where the number the person was thinking of was called out, even if the person said "No." (...that's not the number) at that place (as he did for any number of course).

This experiment shows:

- reading is possible and technique can help (but for us, it just wouldn't look "cool" to use a machine for divining a number).

- SOME or perhaps even MOST people's thought number can be divined with the body signals alone - they can't hide them: so it in fact IS thought reading WITHOUT beeing an "illusion", as you really read the thought number

- thought reading CAN be scientific (partly or fully - as for me: as much scientific as possible plz!)

- btw: FACS (that Craig mentions) is tought at university e.g. in Germany

But you know for yourself:
it's NO illusion if you can find a hidden object in a room, having the hider guiding you through the room with the help of his "micro"-muscle-movements. I call them "micro", because

it' the SAME effect we have with pendula and I'm sure you will agree, that e.g. satanists using a pendula are cheating themselves, because psychologs can prove: YOU make the pendula move - at least with your inconcious muscle movements (e.g. towards an expected answer on a board). Yet kids doing so are shocked sometimes, especially if they try NOT to move the pendula (but the pendula will for certain scientific reasons as pulse e.g. or incounsciousness).

So I'd be happy to having you agree:
Some performances (as muscle reading) are in fact NO illusion, as sw*** gimmick performance or appearing of stigmata etc. definitely IS.

Clever magicians may mix illusion with ability and again: I want to tend to the scientific and YET TERRIFIC (or even MORE terrific) side.

btw: I don't believe in horoscopes, palm reading, etc. but I do believe in hypnosis and nonverbal-language. -> : the word "mentalism" is used in linguistics too and it describes things not so very different from magicians mentalism...

@ Craig:

thanks so much for this tight package of information! - THIS is about 90% the direction I'm heading for! - You helped me a lot and it's up to me now to discover the jungle of sources you mentioned and as I know from scientific research: as soon as you begin to read scientific books, they will lead you over and over to countless references that will do the same and so on.... : once you're in, you'll never find out again... but I like to dive deeply into a matter!

And yes, I'm aware: theory is one thing, but years of work on it is another thing: I'm playing drumset for 25 years now (who cares?!) and martial art for about 18 years (tell me about it.... ) and I see especially for this last one many kids trying to get their acknowledge with a 60 min. instructions-DVD and thinking that now they definitely got their black belt.... As for music and languages, I don't believe in theory at all: modern language course will not stick on grammatics e.g. as if you want to learn Arabic, in Egypt no one will care whether you can or not decline any word, but you have to talk as tought in LIFE and not in books (high arabic), or nobody will understand you.

edit: I just found books on FACS at the library of our university*!!)

THEY EXIST! - It's not an illusion!!

Thanks guys! - Cool forum! - Cici

* - "Reading feelings", "Why children are liying", "what the face reveals", "Darwin and ...", "Unmasking the face", "FACS", and more! : byPaul Ekman
- one book even of Charles Darvin (perhaps doubtful... but nonetheless interesting)
- "you can heal your life" - Louise Hay L. (the one you mention!!)



- now I'll go on with the other sources...
-